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Bread and The Bible

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  • Who is "the guy who designed the infrastructure." Infrastructure of what?

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    • The towers. When he said they were testing to handle temperatures of upwards to 3000 degrees F. The ones that supposedly completely collapsed upon some fuel tanks exploding inside.
      Make America Great Again

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      • Originally posted by UTfootball747 View Post
        Who is "the guy who designed the infrastructure." Infrastructure of what?
        Franklin D. Roosevelt?

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        • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
          The towers. When he said they were testing to handle temperatures of upwards to 3000 degrees F. The ones that supposedly completely collapsed upon some fuel tanks exploding inside.
          Still don't know what "fired" person you're referring to. Most experts who have studied the collapses agree that the fires weakened the steel structure after the impact of the planes and initial explosions dislodged much of the fireproofing on the support beams in the area of impact. Gravity did the rest. Tall buildings might be built to withstand an accidental plane strike, not planes being intentionally rammed into the building at full speed.

          Numerous studies and reports have been conducted by experts at UC Berkley, Northwestern, MIT, among many others. But why look into those? It's just further evidence of a massive conspiracy. This is why conspiracy theories remain so entrenched in the minds of those susceptible to them, incapable of being dislodged, no matter how much contradictory evidence is presented. The evidence just lends further "support" to the paranoid fantasy.

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          • Originally posted by UTfootball747 View Post
            Still don't know what "fired" person you're referring to. Most experts who have studied the collapses agree that the fires weakened the steel structure after the impact of the planes and initial explosions dislodged much of the fireproofing on the support beams in the area of impact. Gravity did the rest. Tall buildings might be built to withstand an accidental plane strike, not planes being intentionally rammed into the building at full speed.

            Numerous studies and reports have been conducted by experts at UC Berkley, Northwestern, MIT, among many others. But why look into those? It's just further evidence of a massive conspiracy. This is why conspiracy theories remain so entrenched in the minds of those susceptible to them, incapable of being dislodged, no matter how much contradictory evidence is presented. The evidence just lends further "support" to the paranoid fantasy.
            Kevin Ryan.

            Kevin Ryan is former Site Manager for a division of Underwriters Laboratories

            We know that the steel components were certified to ASTM E119. The time temperature curves for this standard require the samples to be exposed to temperatures around 2000F for several hours. And as we all agree, the steel applied met those specifications. Additionally, I think we can all agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000F (2). Why Dr. Brown would imply that 2000F would melt the high-grade steel used in those buildings makes no sense at all.

            Hyman Brown:

            "It was over-designed to withstand almost anything including hurricanes, high winds, bombings and an airplane hitting it,"


            You have still failed to specify exactly how these so called experts have refuted these claims. The buildings collapse was too methodical to be the result of "weakened steel" and "gravity". It simply flies in the face of all logic and science.

            911 Truth Loose change 2nd edition 9/11 Documentary Full length - YouTube

            Watch from here.
            Last edited by Derpamix; 04-07-2013, 10:10 AM.
            Make America Great Again

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            • Hey, if you're actually interested in what the 'so-called experts' (hilarious) have to say, do some research yourself. We both know you're not interested. Why should I put in the effort? Literally no amount of evidence or statements from actual experts would convince you. This nonsense has been weighed in on by engineers, demolition experts, and various other scientists. Popular Mechanics is one entity upon many that has explained what happened (9-11 truthers, in turn, argued that PM is a government front of some nefarious sort).

              More conspiracy fodder: The Kevin Ryan individual had nothing to do with the design of the Trade Center buildings and was fired from his position at Underwriters Laboratories (at a water testing facility) for falsely claiming that his employer "certified" the steel used in the construction.

              Ryan declined to comment about his letter Thursday when reached at his South Bend home.

              But his allegations drew a sharp rebuke from UL, which said Ryan wrote the letter "without UL's knowledge or authorization." The company told The Tribune "there is no evidence" that any firm tested the materials used to build the towers.

              "UL does not certify structural steel, such as the beams, columns and trusses used in World Trade Center," said Paul M. Baker, the company's spokesman.

              Ryan was fired, Baker said, because he "expressed his own opinions as though they were institutional opinions and beliefs of UL."

              "The contents of the argument itself are spurious at best, and frankly, they're just wrong," Baker said.
              Kevin R. Ryan Terminated at Underwriters Laboratories: Area Man Stirs Debate on WTC Collapse: South Bend firm's lab director fired after questioning federal probe JOHN DOBBERSTEIN / South Bend Tribune 22nov04

              The conspiracy deepens! (The hilarious thing is that many truthers dislike the "loose change" films for presenting sloppy and distorted claims they think weakens the arguments for their own version of the conspiracy!)
              Last edited by UTfootball747; 04-07-2013, 10:22 AM.

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              • Hahaha you really believe everything they tell you, don't you? Like those faked cell calls that couldn't have possibly taken place. "Hey, mom, it's "full name" here."

                Or that paper ID that survived fire in perfect condition.

                I guess you can be happier that way. Tell me, how does being an atheist statist feel? Instead of worshipping a deity, you worship a group of men.
                Last edited by Derpamix; 04-07-2013, 10:42 AM.
                Make America Great Again

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                • Oh my goodness, faked cell phone calls! They truly did think of everything. Please, do go on!

                  (And I clearly said I was an agnostic, not an atheist. But no detail is too small to escape you, right?)

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                  • It's all in that video. Good job on being agnostic though, major props from me for that at least.
                    Make America Great Again

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                    • I agree, the video makes many claims. The fact of the matter remains, however, that a multitude greater number of experts exist that have studied the various claims made by Truthers and have found them to be unsupported by evidence. The Truthers, in response, claim that these individuals--government experts, but also outside and unrelated engineers, scientists, academics, journalists, and even frickin' eyewitnesses--have been coerced, threatened, bought, etc. Again, without evidence to support such slander.

                      When a minority theory dispatches with contradictory, majority evidence and analysis simply by referring back to the same theory as "proof" of conspiracy--you have a belief system that no amount of evidence will be sufficient to defeat.

                      I was highly critical of many of the demonstrable actions taken by the Bush administration, and I have no doubt that there are as-of-yet unknown crimes and injustices out there. But a far-flung conspiracy by the U.S. government to kill Americans, necessarily carried out by hundreds if not thousands of conspirators, at every level of government, across multiple government bureaucracies, and with the complicity of a foreign terrorist organization . . . not only does it defy common sense, but the trafficking of such nonsense does nothing to address and distracts attention from real injustice . . . and it cheapens and exploits the deaths of thousands of Americans (much like the Bush Administration did by using highly suspect "intelligence" allegedly tying AQ to Hussein to justify the invasion of Iraq).

                      Enjoy the last word...
                      Last edited by UTfootball747; 04-07-2013, 12:03 PM.

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                      • I love Jesus and respect his word--he is my Lord and his word is my authority. i have pondered it too. First of all, Jesus' allusion to "I am the bread of life" is a metaphor utilizing the culture of his day. He was saying, "I am your main sustenance, the staple of your life, the essential thing you need." If he had lived in Honduras, it probably would have been "I am the tortilla of life." If he lived in a paleo-eating culture, it probably would have been "I am the grass-fed beef of life" (the best of the best, the most essential).

                        More "troubling" is GOd's giving the Israelites manna in the wilderness, which appears to be some type of bread. But we don't really know what it was; it was certainly not the typical grain. God provided bread to Elijah via ravens--perhaps he was respecting thier culture; Elijah, culturally, was raised on some bread and that was for him a staple and what he wanted. Was the bread bad for him? SHould God have given him green veggies instead? I don't know. But also, I think even in those days they ate less carbs than our SAD, carb-rich, processed foods diet. Many argue they prepared them differently, sprouting them etc. (sprouted grains is what Ezekiel ate in his bread). Also, I have heard that the quality of our grains is vastly different through breeding, pesticides, GMOs, modificaiton of the sugar and protein content, etc. So, maybe back then they still ate low-carb but also better prepared and healthier grains.

                        Just some thoughts. But thanks for really thinking about what Jesus says.

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                        • Originally posted by sakura_girl View Post
                          Are we happier because of these scientific discoveries?
                          You mean things like germ theory (bacteria and penicillin), the end of witch burning, etc etc? Yes, I think we are happier.
                          Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                          Griff's cholesterol primer
                          5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                          Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                          TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                          bloodorchid is always right

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                          • Originally posted by Mr. Slate View Post
                            Here is something to ponder if we are not suppose to eat grain. Why did Jesus say I am the BREAD of life? Grain is all through the Bible. Have we made a wrong turn?
                            They did not have monsanto back then, to make their food poisonous. I beleive the grains they used then actually had more good stuf, and less bad stuf in it. And Jesus being the bread of life, only He can make the bad, good.....

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                            • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                              You mean things like germ theory (bacteria and penicillin), the end of witch burning, etc etc? Yes, I think we are happier.
                              Are there not any more troubles due to other scientific discoveries?
                              My chocolatey Primal journey

                              Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

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                              • The problem with religion isn't the religion itself, but what men have turned it into. Also, atheists, can you explain the amazing atheist and why he pours hot oil on his genitals?
                                Make America Great Again

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