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Debunking the paleo diet

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  • Debunking the paleo diet

    Have you guys seen this video? Thoughts? (I apologize if it's already been posted/is old news)

    "The mountains are calling and I must go."
    --John Muir


    "I don't know what's wrong with me, but I love this shit."
    --Tommy Caldwell


    ‎"Think like a geek. Eat like a hunter. Train like a fighter. Look like a model. Live beyond."
    --Hyperlithic

  • #2
    There's no such thing as a paleo diet...and then she recommends we eat a paleo diet in all but name.

    Yeah, listen I know there aren't many woolly mammoths around to spear but that does not mean that it's impossible to infer what foods to eat with regard to our recent evolutionary history. The fourth study from the link below is a starting point, for instance.
    http://www.evolbiol.ru/large_files/hominin_diets.pdf

    These guys from the Max Planck institute seem to have given this some thought.

    Comment


    • #3
      Myth 1:
      Vitamin C is in liver and raw dairy, our digestive tract isn't actually as long as plant eaters like e.g. gorillas so we can not properly digest plant cellulose. We do have a longer digestive tract that pure meat eaters like lions, this could indicate that we are made to be meat AND plant eaters.

      She does have a point about just eating muscle meat. However when you eat just muscle meat it's not exactly "paleo", there are people who eat organs nowadays.

      Also she says that's it's not a 100% sure that we know how our ancestors lived. Which I think is pretty obvious, there is only so much left today from tenthousands of years ago which we can study. However you could use common sense and think that the chance is quite high we ate meat because what else could we have eaten with enough calories? There is no fruit all over the world.

      Myth 2:
      Sure they could have eaten grains. This was different from now and possibly fermented.

      Myth 3:
      Yes, products are different today, what are you going to do? Stop eating? And she is saying things about vegetables being different, so is she saying that we should eat meat? That seems contradictory to the title of the video


      I think she is actually promoting the paleo diet. However she is saying that it is not really possibly to completely copy it.
      well then

      Comment


      • #4
        Paleo should have stuck with what we KNOW our ancestors DID NOT eat: Refined sugar, industrially processed flour and seed oils.

        All the rest is conjecture and wordplay.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yeah, it's more of a rebuttal of the 'caveman reenactment' strawman than it is of eating meat and vegetables in whole food form.
          Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

          Griff's cholesterol primer
          5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
          Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
          TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
          bloodorchid is always right

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by otzi View Post
            Paleo should have stuck with what we KNOW our ancestors DID NOT eat: Refined sugar, industrially processed flour and seed oils.

            All the rest is conjecture and wordplay.
            Try this one.

            Isotopic evidence for the diets of European Neanderthals and early modern humans

            Comment


            • #7
              An excellent presentation. About the only thing missing is the relatively recent realization that our genetics evolve far faster than is/was commonly believed - gene spreading in humans happens on timeframes as quick as ~1000 years - so we are not, in actual fact, "Grok".

              Her comments about "Paleodiet" foods not actually being paleolithic are spot on.

              There is an abundance of shit science around this fad, nice to see this presentation, thanks for posting!

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm only several minutes in, but my main question is do I really have to watch this if I subscribe to the "hunter-gatherer diet" rather than the paleo diet? That way I don't have to guestimate what was eaten or not. I see relatively modern humans that are extremely healthy and emulate that. See. Anthropology in action rather than relying simply on archaeological guess work.

                K just watched the rest of it and yeah... one big bright burning straw man argument.

                Not bad for the last few minutes though.
                Last edited by Neckhammer; 03-25-2013, 01:31 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by otzi View Post
                  Paleo should have stuck with what we KNOW our ancestors DID NOT eat: Refined sugar, industrially processed flour and seed oils.

                  All the rest is conjecture and wordplay.
                  +1

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Looking to the past for dietary advices may lead to some absurdities! Suppose that I lived some 700.000 years ago as a caveman and using the evolutionary argument by looking backwards, then at that time the paleolittic diet would have been a newcomer and some other pre-paleolittic diets must have been better for at that stage because humans must have been more evolutionary adapted to what went before they started to eat the paelolittic way...
                    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                    - Schopenhauer

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                      Looking to the past for dietary advices may lead to some absurdities! Suppose that I lived some 700.000 years ago as a caveman and using the evolutionary argument by looking backwards, then at that time the paleolittic diet would have been a newcomer and some other pre-paleolittic diets must have been better for at that stage because humans must have been more evolutionary adapted to what went before they started to eat the paelolittic way...
                      It's already out there The Epi-Paleo Diet

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                        Looking to the past for dietary advices may lead to some absurdities! Suppose that I lived some 700.000 years ago as a caveman and using the evolutionary argument by looking backwards, then at that time the paleolittic diet would have been a newcomer and some other pre-paleolittic diets must have been better for at that stage because humans must have been more evolutionary adapted to what went before they started to eat the paelolittic way...
                        700,000 years ago, they would have looked at their predecessors and said "Look at those stupid little guys with the small brains. Don't think I will eat what they are eating. Gonna have me some bison instead."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I actually liked a lot of what she had to say about our modern fruits and veggies being modern creations that do not resemble the much less palatable and much less nutritious wild varieties. This, IMO, lends credence to the more meat based diet that I eat. Grok would never have bothered with wild broccoli or wild lettuce. They would have had so little nutrition and so much in the way of toxins and anti-nutrients, they would not have been worth the effort to collect them except under famine conditions.

                          Otherwise, yeah, lots of stawmen going on. Like saying the "caveman" diet is all about muscle meat only. Um, care to look in my fridge and see the marrow bones and liver pate' and lamb heart?

                          And sure, there would have been some regional variability between Groks in various places. Who is saying otherwise?

                          Just because there is some barley in the dental plaque of a neanderthal fossil tooth doesn't mean this was a major source of calories. Before being cultivated, it couldn't have been. It would have been a random handful of wild rice thrown in the stewpot or whatever. Paleo has never said that these things were NEVER consumed, just that they weren't the base of the diet.

                          Then she goes on to say that we need to eat whole foods, not sodas. Um, is anybody other than Derp arguing with that?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I enjoyed that talk very much. Thanks for sharing.

                            The only thing I really took issue with was her statement that humans have no specific adaptations for eating meat. Technically true, but statements like that give people the wrong impression, and as lots of vegans learn the hard way, life as a human being sucks ass without dietary cholesterol, fat soluble vitamins and B12. And iron and zinc.
                            Last edited by Timthetaco; 03-25-2013, 05:07 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                              I actually liked a lot of what she had to say about our modern fruits and veggies being modern creations that do not resemble the much less palatable and much less nutritious wild varieties. This, IMO, lends credence to the more meat based diet that I eat. Grok would never have bothered with wild broccoli or wild lettuce. They would have had so little nutrition and so much in the way of toxins and anti-nutrients, they would not have been worth the effort to collect them except under famine conditions.

                              Otherwise, yeah, lots of stawmen going on. Like saying the "caveman" diet is all about muscle meat only. Um, care to look in my fridge and see the marrow bones and liver pate' and lamb heart?

                              And sure, there would have been some regional variability between Groks in various places. Who is saying otherwise?

                              Just because there is some barley in the dental plaque of a neanderthal fossil tooth doesn't mean this was a major source of calories. Before being cultivated, it couldn't have been. It would have been a random handful of wild rice thrown in the stewpot or whatever. Paleo has never said that these things were NEVER consumed, just that they weren't the base of the diet.

                              Then she goes on to say that we need to eat whole foods, not sodas. Um, is anybody other than Derp arguing with that?
                              Wasn't this myth throughly debunked already, re: the fruit? Also, we're omnivores, not carnivores, we're evolved to eat a wide variety of food. Eating nothing but meat is hardly ideal, as you have to go out of your way to obtain key nutrients(getting just enough vitamin c to avoid scurvy come on) The fattened up, domesticated meat sacks don't really resemble animals that were hunted in the wild either btw.

                              And, yeah, soda tastes good. Nothing like a nice cold mexican coke on a hot socal day. I'm evolving, not devolving, I'm not deathly afraid of all neolithic substances, I'd rather put my paranoia to good use.
                              Make America Great Again

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