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Debunking the paleo diet

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
    Wasn't this myth throughly debunked already, re: the fruit? Also, we're omnivores, not carnivores, we're evolved to eat a wide variety of food. Eating nothing but meat is hardly ideal, as you have to go out of your way to obtain key nutrients(getting just enough vitamin c to avoid scurvy come on) The fattened up, domesticated meat sacks don't really resemble animals that were hunted in the wild either btw.

    And, yeah, soda tastes good. Nothing like a nice cold mexican coke on a hot socal day. I'm evolving, not devolving, I'm not deathly afraid of all neolithic substances, I'd rather put my paranoia to good use.
    Actually that was the presenter debunking our "paleo foods" as not being nearly the same types of fruits and veggies that paleo people ate. Denise did a debunk of the fruit thing by showing there are indeed some very nice sized fruits in Africa and other areas that indigenous people eat. So its like a paleo debunk of debunking paleo that was debunked by an x-vegan. Do try to keep up.

    Also the "lean wild meat" thing has been debunked by showing how traditional societies actually do utilize every bit of fat on those lean carcasses AND they do preferentially hunt the fattier individuals of the herd. So again the paleo debunk has a counter debunk, but that only is likely to hold true if your eating nose to tail like paleobird, and many of the rest of us do.

    As to your soda, cigs, and sugar.... hell, you don't gotta rationalize to us... you like your soda and cigs then have at em. I'm not sure those are the neolithic items I would go with though.

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    • #17
      Well, I didn't watch the vid yet bro, just got off work and I got a hockey game to watch.

      So, which substances would you choose?
      Make America Great Again

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      • #18
        i think people just latch onto an idea about what they think paleo is and then go from there. Several straw man arguments, several things we've already heard and considered, and from there, basically nothing worth listening to except that we already do what she recommends anyway.

        From there, it's basically about how individual people who identify as paleo are. Some people *are* grok re-enactors. Others are just looking for a healthy, sustainable way to eat that they enjoy, and a community with whom they can talk about it in general.

        And, this is a relatively open paleo community -- since we have the "include dairy if you want" and the "20%" element. So, that's quite nice -- makes it easier to chat about the non-paleo things that we may be doing, how they affect us n=1 style, and so on. Beneficial.

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        • #19
          Actually that video is one of the best endorsements
          for the Paleo Diet I've seen besides Loren Cordain's presentation. My diet is more like the one Cordain outlines in his book, The Paleo Diet, but like he suggested I go by the 80/20 rule and have dairy once in awhile. Cordain pretty much says the same thing this woman has said in her lecture. The biggest problem I see with this lecture as well as the new book that came out recently entitled "Paleo Fantasy" by evolutionary biologist Marlene Zuk, is not that their science is wrong, but that they really don't understand the current popular paleo diet.
          Last edited by grokgramma; 03-25-2013, 06:41 PM.

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          • #20
            Thank you, that was a good talk. I think she was vey fair, especially since it's obvious that she has a built in ideology. But Paleo/Primal is not 'primarily meat based', it is primarily fat based meaning that's what where most of our calories come from. The examples she gave of inhabitants of Mexico (7000bc - Olmec?) and the Mayan were of argicultural civilizations. Yes, we have a longer digestive tract than carnivors but shorter than herbavores, that's because we're omnivors, along with the intermediate dental type. We don't have 2 sets of teeth like grazers or canine incisors like carnivors.

            She did point out the regional adaptations. In Southern africa they ate a lot more fruit and veggies, in the far North they ate almost entirely meat. But then she blamed paleo for being based on meat and veggies. Does this make sense?

            The nitrogen information was interesting.
            "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
              Well, I didn't watch the vid yet bro, just got off work and I got a hockey game to watch.

              So, which substances would you choose?
              Neolithic substances... hmmm, I'd say booze but that is hardly neolithic. Coffee is definitely on my list. I'm not straight edge paleo though and I still have a very neolithic meal out 2-4x/month.

              And the remarks about debunking of the debunking were made in jest. It's kinda trendy it seems to "debunk" something.
              Last edited by Neckhammer; 03-25-2013, 06:49 PM.

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              • #22
                Personally I also include certain synthetic substances like Aspartame, Creatine monohydrate and various synthetic vitamins in my diet, so I suppose that I will be classified to belong to the space age branch of the paleolittic lifestyle…
                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                - Schopenhauer

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
                  Myth 1:
                  Vitamin C is in liver and raw dairy, our digestive tract isn't actually as long as plant eaters like e.g. gorillas so we can not properly digest plant cellulose. We do have a longer digestive tract that pure meat eaters like lions, this could indicate that we are made to be meat AND plant eaters.

                  She does have a point about just eating muscle meat. However when you eat just muscle meat it's not exactly "paleo", there are people who eat organs nowadays.

                  Also she says that's it's not a 100% sure that we know how our ancestors lived. Which I think is pretty obvious, there is only so much left today from tenthousands of years ago which we can study. However you could use common sense and think that the chance is quite high we ate meat because what else could we have eaten with enough calories? There is no fruit all over the world.

                  Myth 2:
                  Sure they could have eaten grains. This was different from now and possibly fermented.

                  Myth 3:
                  Yes, products are different today, what are you going to do? Stop eating? And she is saying things about vegetables being different, so is she saying that we should eat meat? That seems contradictory to the title of the video


                  I think she is actually promoting the paleo diet. However she is saying that it is not really possibly to completely copy it.

                  I didn't know about vitamin C being in raw dairy.

                  I agree with some of your last statements--my biggest issue was the contradictions made. She went on about how we're evolved to eat a plant-based diet, but then later on talks about how must plants in the paleo era were inedible. Makes no sense. Then she talks about how paleolithic peoples barely ate meat, but then says how they ate lean game and all the organs/marrow.

                  I agree with the posters saying that it's more like she's debunking what some people say paleo "is", generally people who don't actually understand the concept. I don't eat this way to try and be a modern-day cave(wo)man, I eat this way because it makes sense and gives a general, dare I say, blueprint for how to live healthfully.
                  "The mountains are calling and I must go."
                  --John Muir


                  "I don't know what's wrong with me, but I love this shit."
                  --Tommy Caldwell


                  ‎"Think like a geek. Eat like a hunter. Train like a fighter. Look like a model. Live beyond."
                  --Hyperlithic

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                  • #24
                    Here's a better, and different, talk:
                    Dan Leiberman, PhD
                    "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cryptocode View Post
                      Here's a better, and different, talk:
                      Dan Leiberman, PhD
                      ^ Just plain better.

                      People from the US just love to argue, it's part of the culture. Hell, that "debunking" lady wasn't even debunking, she was saying the exact same thing as the paleo people.

                      Just eat meat and vegi, simple.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cryptocode View Post
                        Here's a better, and different, talk:
                        Dan Leiberman, PhD
                        Good lecture.

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                        • #27
                          Regarding wild plants being inedible in our "Paleo" era past, what evidence is there of this? It's been many years since I've actually studied the Paleo/Meso/Neo period, and I don't recall this being a reality.

                          But I am forever a student.

                          M.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                            Wasn't this myth throughly debunked already, re: the fruit? Also, we're omnivores, not carnivores, we're evolved to eat a wide variety of food. Eating nothing but meat is hardly ideal, as you have to go out of your way to obtain key nutrients(getting just enough vitamin c to avoid scurvy come on) The fattened up, domesticated meat sacks don't really resemble animals that were hunted in the wild either btw.

                            And, yeah, soda tastes good. Nothing like a nice cold mexican coke on a hot socal day. I'm evolving, not devolving, I'm not deathly afraid of all neolithic substances, I'd rather put my paranoia to good use.
                            The fat soluble vitamin c is actually much more effective so you would need less. Also, scurvy is not necessarily caused by too litte vitamin C. The main thing you hear about scurvy is that sailors on ships got scurvy. This was caused by phytate of all the buscuits they ate. Vitamin C could stop this because it oxidizes the phytate.
                            well then

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
                              The fat soluble vitamin c is actually much more effective so you would need less. Also, scurvy is not necessarily caused by too litte vitamin C. The main thing you hear about scurvy is that sailors on ships got scurvy. This was caused by phytate of all the buscuits they ate. Vitamin C could stop this because it oxidizes the phytate.
                              Thanks, Gadsie. You beat me to the Derp debunking. Yes, the artic explorations of Stephanson et al showed that those eating the eskimo diet of all meat and fat did not get scurvy. Those who ate the biscuits did.

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