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  • #61
    Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
    I disagree. Here's a more accurate analogy: If you're not okay with eating butter as a food, then you cannot logically agree with eating cheese as a food.
    You're funny.

    nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/37/2
    Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Butter, without salt

    Cheese is 1/3 protein by weight and an order of magnitude more nutritious than butter, which is no surprise since cheese is made out of milk while butter is essentially just milkfat, containing little nutrition worth mentioning aside from some Vitamin A and very tiny quantities of Vitamins E & K. Meanwhile, cheese is rich in B vitamins, calcium and over half a dozen minerals and a phenomenal source of anabolic protein. You'll find athletes and bodybuilders eating cheese regularly. You won't find many people eating butter. Well, aside from those that can't seem to lose those last 20 lbs
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Bane View Post
      Just wow. I was going to comment on your stupid butter=sugar comment, but after reading this thread more I've realized I might have better luck teaching my dog to make coffee.

      I want to save myself from this:

      I don't get it. Why not put molasses in your coffee instead?

      Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Molasses
      Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Butter, without salt

      It's way more nutritious. Butter can't even compare. If we're eating butter, why not drink maple syrup? It's more nutritious per calorie. I mean we're all extremists here, right? Eating butter, drinking syrup, etc.

      Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Syrups, maple

      Have you actually researched the nutritional content of these things? If you actually research your ignorant comment above, you'd see maple syrup and molasses actually are SUPERIOR to butter nutritionally per calorie.

      My point is that all this nonsense is stupid. Butter, maple syrup, honey, salt - they're all in the same category. They are toppings and cooking tools/additives, not foods that should be consumed on their own. If you eat slices of butter, you must also be okay with eating tablespoons of honey. It's the same principle. To say butter is okay to eat by itself and deny the same to honey, maple syrup and molasses isn't logical.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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      • #63
        Drinking water and syrup is not extreeme at all, it would give fast energy when working out! But I have never heard anybody drinking butter when doing a marathon though...
        "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

        - Schopenhauer

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        • #64
          You can't have it both ways Choco. Are you objecting to butter based on it being "rendered" into such a highly processed food? If so, your argument falls apart because cheese is much more highly "rendered" i.e. processed.

          BTW, nobody ever said that butter was more nutritious than cheese, just that it was not empty, nutritionally void calories as you have claimed. Keep battling those strawmen. It's probably a good workout.

          "rendered"

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          • #65
            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
            You're funny.

            nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/37/2
            Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Butter, without salt

            Cheese is 1/3 protein by weight and an order of magnitude more nutritious than butter, which is no surprise since cheese is made out of milk while butter is essentially just milkfat, containing little nutrition worth mentioning aside from some Vitamin A and very tiny quantities of Vitamins E & K. Meanwhile, cheese is rich in B vitamins, calcium and over half a dozen minerals and a phenomenal source of anabolic protein. You'll find athletes and bodybuilders eating cheese regularly. You won't find many people eating butter. Well, aside from those that can't seem to lose those last 20 lbs
            Stop changing the subject. Is butter more processed or less processed than cheese? If cheese is a whole food, so is butter. That's not the same thing as saying it's a complete, balanced meal, which is a false conflation you keep trying to make to support your bogus argument.

            And for the record: I've competed in MMA and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu at <8% body fat while eating butter as part of my dietary regimen. So you don't have to look too far to find at least one. And I would look like a concentration camp survivor if I lost 20 lbs.
            The Champagne of Beards

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            • #66
              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
              Please. "To render" is to make. It is used in all walks of life as a normal word, like rendering a webpage. I guess webpages have to be melted as well. But please, keep the logical fallacies coming. The fact remains that butter is not nutrient dense compared to whole foods and it is processed no matter how you look at it.
              Oh dear...

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              • #67
                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                The fact remains that butter is not nutrient dense compared to whole foods and it is processed no matter how you look at it.
                I still disagree. It's quite nutrient dense. In fact when evaluated in terms of nutrition/gram it blows many fruits and some vegetables right out of the water!

                It just so happens that it is also quite calorically dense as well. It will be up to you to decide if this is good or bad for your current goals.

                But yeah, we know butter is just cream shaken up real good.... so its obviously not the same as HFCS or sugar which undergo vast mechanical and chemical manipulation to reach their highly refined state.
                Last edited by Neckhammer; 03-22-2013, 12:46 PM.

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                • #69
                  I cook with butter.... but I get what Choco is saying. If you are on a diet with limited calories and trying to create a nutrient diverse and dense diet, it makes little sense to just eat butter for the hell of it, just like it is pointless to drink maple syrup.

                  Butter is awesome as a condiment, but as a meal there are probably better things to put in your body than 500 calories worth of butter melted in some coffee. Like a couple eggs scrambled in some butter with some brocolli. Or chicken and a sweet potato with a pat of butter.

                  You know, if you are on say, Mt Everest and just flat out need palatable calories, by all means, a fatty cup of coffee is awesome. Just like eating "energy gel" is awesome for an Ironman triathlete.

                  I gotta agree with Choco.

                  http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                  Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                  • #70
                    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                    You can't have it both ways Choco. Are you objecting to butter based on it being "rendered" into such a highly processed food? If so, your argument falls apart because cheese is much more highly "rendered" i.e. processed.

                    BTW, nobody ever said that butter was more nutritious than cheese, just that it was not empty, nutritionally void calories as you have claimed. Keep battling those strawmen. It's probably a good workout.

                    "rendered"
                    Please. You know the argument I'm making. I make the same argument in practically every single post I make. Do you know what it is?

                    "Eat real, nutrient-dense foods."

                    That's it.

                    I'm surrounded by people that don't grasp that simple message. I'm surrounded by people that blend half a stick of butter in their coffee and eat it by the slice and wonder why they can't seem to lose weight. And these same people would be horrified at someone putting one single 16 calorie packet of white sugar in my coffee.

                    I'll eat cheese - on some occasions - because cheese is nutritious and a great source of calories. I go through more butter than I go through cheese - because butter is a useful kitchen tool, and I try not to eat a lot of cheese because it's incredibly easy to overeat. I'm more of a yogurt kind of person because it's low calorie and filling. I won't eat sticks of butter and blend them in my coffee ever because there is no point to that. That is like...wait for it...taking a spoon to a bag of sucanat.
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                    • #71
                      Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                      I still disagree. It's quite nutrient dense. In fact when evaluated in terms of nutrition/gram it blows many fruits and some vegetables right out of the water!

                      It just so happens that it is also quite calorically dense as well. It will be up to you to decide if this is good or bad for your current goals.

                      But yeah, we know butter is just cream shaken up real good.... so its obviously not the same as HFCS or sugar which undergo vast mechanical and chemical manipulation to reach their highly refined state.
                      My baseline judge is nutrition per calorie. Butter contains very little water content compared to fruits, vegetables and meats. The only fair way is by calorie, and while butter is nutritious vs other fats, it isn't nutritious compared to whole foods.
                      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                      Comment


                      • #72
                        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                        I'm surrounded by people that blend half a stick of butter in their coffee and eat it by the slice and wonder why they can't seem to lose weight.
                        Good lord, where are you hanging out...

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                        • #73
                          Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                          I cook with butter.... but I get what Choco is saying. If you are on a diet with limited calories and trying to create a nutrient diverse and dense diet, it makes little sense to just eat butter for the hell of it, just like it is pointless to drink maple syrup.

                          Butter is awesome as a condiment, but as a meal there are probably better things to put in your body than 500 calories worth of butter melted in some coffee. Like a couple eggs scrambled in some butter with some brocolli. Or chicken and a sweet potato with a pat of butter.

                          You know, if you are on say, Mt Everest and just flat out need palatable calories, by all means, a fatty cup of coffee is awesome. Just like eating "energy gel" is awesome for an Ironman triathlete.

                          I gotta agree with Choco.
                          Yes, exactly my point. When you're a competition mountain climber that needs to consume 5,000 calories a day, butter is probably a fantastic steady energy source. MCT's, SFA's, almost no PUFA and compared to Gatorade...well...it's way more nutritious and healthy. But it isn't appropriate for a 45 year old woman sitting at a desk all day who wants to lose weight.
                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                          • #74
                            Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                            Repent and do repentance! - and to save your lost paleo soul you must now drink a large cup of Bulletproof coffee loaded with one stick of butter as a holy sacrament…
                            I wondered why this thread was getting so much mileage....

                            now I know!
                            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                            - Ray Peat

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                            • #75
                              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                              I don't get it. Why not put molasses in your coffee instead?

                              Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Molasses
                              Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Butter, without salt

                              It's way more nutritious. Butter can't even compare. If we're eating butter, why not drink maple syrup? It's more nutritious per calorie. I mean we're all extremists here, right? Eating butter, drinking syrup, etc.

                              Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Syrups, maple

                              Have you actually researched the nutritional content of these things? If you actually research your ignorant comment above, you'd see maple syrup and molasses actually are SUPERIOR to butter nutritionally per calorie.
                              No, I haven't studied the nutritional content of maple syrup. I know instinctively it has a fuckton of sugar in it, so obviously I am not going to put 3-4 tablespoons of the shit into a coffee. Looking at your link that's 36-48 grams of sugar.

                              You're honestly going to tell me that 400 calories of butter in a cup of coffee is the same thing as drinking 400 calories worth of milk and maple syrup in it?

                              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                              My point is that all this nonsense is stupid. Butter, maple syrup, honey, salt - they're all in the same category. They are toppings and cooking tools/additives, not foods that should be consumed on their own. If you eat slices of butter, you must also be okay with eating tablespoons of honey. It's the same principle. To say butter is okay to eat by itself and deny the same to honey, maple syrup and molasses isn't logical.
                              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                              That's not true. Your argument is not in context.

                              Is butter unhealthy? No. It's one of the healthiest fats on planet Earth, and my goto fat of choice for cooking (well, technically ghee, but same composition).

                              Butter is also one of the most nutrient-dense fats on planet Earth as well. Compare it to coconut oil, lard, tallow...they are healthy fats as well, and butter beats them.
                              So you think butter is one of the healthiest fats on planet earth, but if I put it in my coffee it becomes the equivalent of maple syrup?

                              I have a tablespoon or two in coffee once in a while. I didn't think adding one of the healthiest fats around while I'm rendering myself a cup of coffee would be such a crime against nature. I'm eating something you eat, just in a different way, so it might as well be a handful of sugar?

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