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Why do some people do poorly on very Low Carb diet?

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  • #16
    Funny, that's what acupuncturist told me, that and kidneys. he gave me herbal concoction with a flowery description of how it addresses yiun and whatever and liver.

    That fatty liver sounds like a diagnosis: hopeless. You gotta eat low cal/low fat diet, but you are hungry because your liver is fatty, so... Fat or miserable. Pick one.
    Last edited by Leida; 03-18-2013, 10:37 AM.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Leida View Post
      That fatty liver sounds like a diagnosis: hopeless. You gotta eat low cal/low fat diet, but you are hungry because your liver is fatty, so... Fat or miserable. Pick one.
      I had fatty liver. My liver actually hurt when I'd lay on it and some liver labs (ALT?) were very elevated. After 6 months LC PB, liver labs all normal, no more pain. You could say I'm cured, but too much fructose or alcohol and I can feel it in my liver. My goal is to keep weight off and insulin sensitivity high via diet and exercise.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Omni View Post
        Following the line of thinking, a low blood glucose level on a very low carb diet would most likely be due to inadequate gluconeogenesis...
        Not sure what you mean by this or why it matters. I don't think I've read a single anecdote of someone experiencing fasting or postprandial hypoglycemia on a ketogenic diet. Fasting blood sugar tends to be higher, actually. If gluconeogenesis is insufficient, I imagine it would be related to glycogen rather than blood sugar.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by otzi View Post
          I have long surmised that people with liver dysfunction do very poorly on a VLC/LC platform.
          I think you have a very valid point there, Otzi. I would add some others to the list as well.
          1. Liver dysfunction
          2. Thyroid dysfunction (can often be undiagnosed but VLC brings it to light)
          3. People who are already very lean.
          4. People doing starvation level calories yet blaming the physical symptoms on the low carbs.

          This is just from what I have observed of posters over the years. Someone starts going on about how horrible their VLC experience was and then, later down the post, it turns out they had one of these physical ailments. Or guys like Derpy (who is 6'2" and 150) are obviously not going to do well on a fat burning metabolic plan because he has no fat left to burn.

          And then there are the people who say they hate keto but were never really there. They were in the place Dr. Peter Attia of The Eating Academy calls "The Zone Of Misery" which is like perpetual carb flu. The transition to keto can be derailed by some combination of too many carbs, and/or too little fat, and/or too much protein.

          So I don't say "Ur doing it rong" to everyone who has a bad experience with keto. It is really not right for some people at some stages in their quest for health.

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          • #20
            So so so many reasons.

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            • #21
              Nope, I ate liver religiously, from grass-fed beef and pork (I love liver, always did), ate wild salmon, coconut oil, raw soaked and dehydrated macadamia nuts and every shred of green my 30 g per day allowed, and drunk home-made set-to-solid rich bone broths from grass-fed beef bones and turkey... and no dice. Initially I lost ~ 4 lbs, but in 2 weeks regained it and became lethargic with hunger. And, yeah, in the end I was starting to have horrible psychological response when handling or seeing fruit, basically ready to snap at the lucky people who can eat fruit, weep for envy and I don't want to relate the thoughts I had seeing slender gazelles shopping for fruit and granola or eating 3 cups of grapes in front of me.... Don't think it's normal.
              Yes, Leida. I recall your troubles.

              I suspect a strong genetic component, whether environmentally driven or a random mutation. You see certain faces on really heavy people (not the just fat but the eyes and nose, and more) and then certain other faces on typically thin people. And haven't you ever seen a giant skeleton in thin skin and thought, "That person was meant to be a LOT thicker, and they look sick at this composition."?
              Crohn's, doing SCD

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              • #22
                Because i was able to self cure every problem i had and them some makes me believe that they were not underlying issues but were brought on by the diet itself.

                It came down to excess protein, pufa, cooked food, iron and toxins. Cooked fatty meat, eggs and cheese basically made by digestion slow to a crawl and stop up every toxin remover i had. Of course a lack of carbs and everything that goes along with FFA liberation/Gluconeogenesis really adds to the shitstorm. Reversing the diet by eating mainly raw fruits/veg, lightly cooked animal sources and a almost complete avoidence to pufa and iron seemed to be the key to my health. I know that the whole raw thing seems hippyish but i believe there is a lot of power in consuming foods a fresh and minimally processed as possible.

                That said i do think that a ketogenic diet on the right way could be ok for some, although im still unsure if it is optimal for anyone. Genetics also seems to play a big role.

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                • #23
                  I had fatty liver. My liver actually hurt when I'd lay on it and some liver labs (ALT?) were very elevated. After 6 months LC PB, liver labs all normal, no more pain. You could say I'm cured, but too much fructose or alcohol and I can feel it in my liver. My goal is to keep weight off and insulin sensitivity high via diet and exercise.
                  Ouch. I am just gonna try to be grateful that I am not in pain of any kind, and don't feel like slapping around any unsuspecting soul that dared to leave an apple where I can see it.

                  I don't buy the facial features corresponds to obesity argument, since I have seen sisters looking very much alike where one is obsess and the other - stick thin, same face. I would never argue that methabolic problems are genetic.

                  Anyway, never will do VLC again myself. It doesn't solve anything for me, and makes me miserable. Hey, silver lining is that it's not a dilemma. If VLC did turn me into an Athletic Goddess, now, it would have been a dilemma.
                  My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                  When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                  • #24
                    Because it sucks.
                    Make America Great Again

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                      Because it sucks.

                      Having been on both sides, its absolutley true that its not the same for everyone. If I wasn't working out in my current frequency (sometimes 5x a week for ~2 hours) I would be full on keto right now without a doubt.

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                      • #26
                        Leida, Have you ever had Leptin levels tested?
                        My partner tested hers last year and she is high, I think range is 3-11 and she was at 13.8 and also has glucose and insulin levels at the high end of their respective ranges. She is coming out of autoimmune hyperthyroid and I found out a while back there was a strong corrolation between glucose dysfunction and thyroid disease, looking back historically she showed signs of this and had the mild bouts of Hypoglycaemia if she didn't get morning carbs. She's much better now, but doesn't have the same inclination towards fat as I do, though she hasn't really tried, I expect she would have similar issues with VLC as many women here. It may be partially a female inclination and this may relate to why women get autoimmune diseases more often, but I suspect a significant contributer may also be that womens dietary habits are driven by aesthetic's more often, whereas mens are usually by satiety, so women more often sit at the edge of nutrition and then have their monthly nutrient peak demand and that could be enough to tip them over.

                        It looks like Leptin resistance may be down at the base of the hormonal cascade, the thyroid response is merely because the body can not provide enough endogenous Glucose, so throwing things at the thyroid is probably a waste of time in most cases.

                        As suggested Liver health may well be the core of the problem as it is a major player in glucose metabolism, I don't really by into all the cleansing and detox stuff, my feelings are good diet and physical health will allow the liver to heal itself over time.

                        Haven't done any numbers on it, but just on feel I think most of the negative responses on VLC have been from women with the whole metabolic slow down etc and lesser inclination towards IF then men, but I think most of the High Cholesterol outcomes on VLC have been from men, so these two may be flip sides of the same coin. This goes in line with the fact more women get autoimmune diseases, but more men suffer from heart disease, is the root cause the same, but because of hormonal differences between the sexes the disease manifestations are different.
                        "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                        • #27
                          Healthy young insulin sensitive people are likely to experience health markers worsen. When it comes to weight loss, It's good for sick overweight people who can't stick to other diets due to their preference for fatty foods.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by WeldingHank View Post
                            Having been on both sides, its absolutley true that its not the same for everyone. If I wasn't working out in my current frequency (sometimes 5x a week for ~2 hours) I would be full on keto right now without a doubt.
                            I think the workout thing is different where to get max output glycogen still rules, but it is worth looking at developing your fat metabolism further by doing workouts in a glycogen depleted state, you won't achieve your best performance, but over time you do get better, it's a strange kind of feeling, you don't get the lactate burning, there's just this kind of upper limit of force.
                            Within the 4 types of muscle fibre a couple of them can build up special fatty stores, kind of like the glycogen thing, so by doing some workouts without the aid of glycogen this facility improves, then over time you can build up both sides and when it comes to the big day, you can really be a "Duel Fuel Beast".
                            "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
                              Healthy young insulin sensitive people are likely to experience health markers worsen. When it comes to weight loss, It's good for sick overweight people who can't stick to other diets due to their preference for fatty foods.
                              Like what?
                              Is it just an initial response and do they improve as they stabilise on the diet?
                              "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                              • #30
                                Leida, Have you ever had Leptin levels tested?
                                Nope, doubt one can do it in Canada. I like all natural diet, cook everything from scratch, but I won't do any diet that limits fruit and vegetables, including tubers.
                                My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                                When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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