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  • Bloodwork - High LDL, High TC

    Hi,

    I've been following a primal diet for just about a year now. I've lost 25-30 pounds and generally feel great.

    I went in for a physical last week and these are my results of my bloodwork:

    TC - 298
    TG - 53
    LDL - 229
    HDL - 59

    I haven't spoken to my doctor yet but I imagine he is going to suggest I go on statins which I obviously would like to avoid.

    I don't know which formula the LDL was calculated with, but assuming it is Friedewald, if i use the Iranian equation, my LDL comes out to 186. Which I think would still be considered "high".

    I'm not sure what steps I should take next. I've read a bit on the forums and elsewhere online about potential problems with my thyroid that could cause high LDL or TC. Should I look to have my thyroid tested ? I've also read a bit about the VAP test which seems to be a more accurate measurement of LDL.

    In terms of my diet, I eat a lot of meat, animal fat, and vegetables. I take fish oil and a good multi vitamin daily. I usually have at least one meal a week that is seafood, fish or shellfish.

    Any thoughts ?

    thanks,
    Mike

  • #2
    Although others will advise you better on how to interpret your numbers,

    there may be a few other things you want to check:
    Full thyroid panel - FT4, FT3 & TSH
    Insulin tolerence/Glucose sensitivity
    Fasting Leptin levels
    Vitamin D

    I am dubious of Multi Vitamins, but that's me,
    You may want to look at increasing Carb intake a little bit, there has been enough anecdotal as well as scientific evidence to suggest that some individuals may have a disrupted glucose metabolism and by going very low carb they may drive their bodies into downregulating metabolism sometimes refered to as hibernation response.
    Without adequate glucose to maintain blood sugar, the body produces rT3 and T3 levels drop, this slows metabolism and reduces glucose requirements, the related factor is that T3 seems to be a key hormone in LDL receptor activation, so if T3 goes down, then LDL clearance drops and serum LDL levels rise.
    Leptin resistance may play a key role here in downregulating the Gluconeogenesis process in the Liver, hence starting of the cascade as the body isn't capable of generating endogenous glucose and needs dietary glucose to maintain blood sugar properly in affected individuals.
    Leptin resistance is believed to predate insulin resistance by decades.

    My suspicion is that the issue lies primarily in the liver and excessive fructose consumption, from SAD not fruit, along with high PUFA and low choline consumption results in non alcoholic Fatty Liver NAFL and/or other liver disturbances, to correct liver function and restore leptin sensitivity may take a quite a few years, so in my eyes a moderate carb/moderate fat diet may be a safer option for those that show either higher cholesterol, thyroid disfunction or downregulated metabolism.
    "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

    Comment


    • #3
      If you are currently losing weight the numbers will be skewed. Wait until you are weight stable for a couple months and re test.... or not. If you are eating well then cholestorol is what it needs to be. I actually had a discussion with a person who had a heart attack last year with 150 TC. Her friend has refused all interventions and is now in her mid 80's with a TC of 550 (pretty likely to be the familial sort) and never a cardiovascular event. Useless numbers in most cases.
      Last edited by Neckhammer; 03-15-2013, 07:20 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Point your physician to the INTERHEART trial (link in my sig) and ask her/him to measure your ApoB and ApoA1, instead of the useless standard lipid panel
        Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

        Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Omni View Post
          Although others will advise you better on how to interpret your numbers,

          there may be a few other things you want to check:
          Full thyroid panel - FT4, FT3 & TSH
          Insulin tolerence/Glucose sensitivity
          Fasting Leptin levels
          Vitamin D
          thanks - am i better off just going to get these on my own instead of trying to convince him ? -- do you know if these are covered by insursance ?

          Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
          If you are currently losing weight the numbers will be skewed. Wait until you are weight stable for a couple months and re test....
          My weight has stabalized for about 6 months now.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MikeL View Post
            Hi,

            I've been following a primal diet for just about a year now. I've lost 25-30 pounds and generally feel great.

            I went in for a physical last week and these are my results of my bloodwork:

            TC - 298
            TG - 53
            LDL - 229
            HDL - 59

            I haven't spoken to my doctor yet but I imagine he is going to suggest I go on statins which I obviously would like to avoid.

            I don't know which formula the LDL was calculated with, but assuming it is Friedewald, if i use the Iranian equation, my LDL comes out to 186. Which I think would still be considered "high".

            I'm not sure what steps I should take next. I've read a bit on the forums and elsewhere online about potential problems with my thyroid that could cause high LDL or TC. Should I look to have my thyroid tested ? I've also read a bit about the VAP test which seems to be a more accurate measurement of LDL.

            In terms of my diet, I eat a lot of meat, animal fat, and vegetables. I take fish oil and a good multi vitamin daily. I usually have at least one meal a week that is seafood, fish or shellfish.

            Any thoughts ?

            thanks,
            Mike
            Using Griff's work: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread4723.html
            TC/HDL = 298/59 = 5.06 (ideal = 5 or below)
            Trig/HDL: 53/59or 0.89 (ideal = 2 or below)
            LDL/HDL: 229/59 or 3.89 (ideal = 4.3 or below)

            Yes, the LDL contribution to TC is a little high. This would be because you're loosing weight. Don't worry about it at all, and definately don't take any cholesterol medicine. If you are tempted to do so read: "How Statin Drugs Really Lower Your Cholesterol, and Kill You One Cell at a Time". That will completely remove any such temptation.

            All the tests for distinguishing Pattern A vs B are in doubt. The nuclear test is currently thought best, not VAP. But the worst result could only lead to a medication - which IMO is much worse. They're all pretty dangereous and the Farmingham study only found that of 47 males between the ages of 28-50 (approx.) there was a 2% greater risk of heart disease. 2% is in no way comparable to the huge risk incured from the medications.
            Last edited by Cryptocode; 03-16-2013, 07:48 PM.
            "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

            Comment


            • #7
              TC - 298
              TG - 53
              LDL - 229
              HDL - 59

              Was your LDL calculated or measured? It looks calculated and if calculated it will be a false high.
              The Friedewald equation tends to overestimate LDL when trigs are <100.
              The Iranian equation is better when trigs<100.
              LDL Cholesterol Calculator
              Friedewald gives 229
              Iranian 187

              But as others have said look at your ratios (which will be better using the Iranian) and wait until your weight stabilizes.
              Last edited by Dirlot; 03-16-2013, 11:57 AM.
              Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
              PS
              Don't forget to play!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MikeL View Post
                thanks - am i better off just going to get these on my own instead of trying to convince him ? -- do you know if these are covered by insursance ?

                My weight has stabalized for about 6 months now.
                All but the Leptin ($30) is covered here in Oz.
                Most here would not take med's for lowering cholesterol, but I think it's always worth digging a bit deeper to see what else may be out of whack and possibly causing the high cholesterol.

                Get a full blood panel as well, anything you can get, just say you are making a concerted effort in improving your health and just want to get benchmarks so you can see how you progress in the future.
                "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

                Comment


                • #9
                  i just realized my blood work has FREE T4 as well - it reads 1.6, but I'm assuming without FT3 & TSH I can't tell whether my thyroid is working properly ?
                  Last edited by MikeL; 03-17-2013, 01:54 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cryptocode View Post
                    Using Griff's work: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread4723.html
                    TC/HDL = 298/59 = 5.06 (ideal = 5 or below)
                    Trig/HDL: 53/59or 0.89 (ideal = 2 or below)
                    LDL/HDL: 229/59 or 3.89 (ideal = 4.3 or below)

                    Yes, the LDL contribution to TC is a little high. This would be because you're loosing weight.
                    I've actually stopped losing weight for about 6 months now, how long after my weight stabalizing should strange results last for ?

                    I'm actually surprised at my HDL # - given I eat a LOT of saturated fats...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cryptocode View Post
                      Using Griff's work: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread4723.html
                      TC/HDL = 298/59 = 5.06 (ideal = 5 or below)
                      Trig/HDL: 53/59or 0.89 (ideal = 2 or below)
                      LDL/HDL: 229/59 or 3.89 (ideal = 4.3 or below)
                      According to Griff's "work," this guy should not have had a heart attack.

                      It's up to you if you want your cholesterol to be in the higher or lower range. I can't tell you what's more ideal or if there even is an ideal. But should you choose lower cholesterol, all you have to do is eat more carbohydrates and less saturated fat.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Be sure to read Mark's blog today and watch STATIN NATION (First 13 mins) - YouTube. There's another good book on Cholesterol "The Cholesterol Con" which is an easier read than the other book.

                        Really, even if you're not loosing weight, I wouldn't worry about those numbers at all. Your numbers are about the same as mine. I've completely stopped considering cholesterol as anything but good. I understand that the Pattern B and the VLC are detrimental, aslo that no tests are reliable. I hope that staying on PB will help eliminate them, but in today's world hoping is the best and least risky option.
                        "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Cholesterol means nothing. Sugar kills you. Sugar will cause inflammation which will cause cholesterol to kill you but, it doesnt matter how much cholesterol you have.

                          cholesterol=bullet
                          Sugar/inflammation=gun

                          Bullets dont kill people without a gun. Doesnt matter if your TB (total bullet) is 250 or 1. One bullet will kill you.

                          Thats my super sick and dumbed down analogy.

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