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  • #31
    Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
    You can continue to ignore the point of my original post - that "millions of people" have not successfully lost weight and kept it off using a high carb protocol of any sort. Or any other protocol. If there existed a highly successful weight loss formula, the country wouldn't have an obesity problem.

    Citation still needed.
    You don't even have a point. Your "point" is a logical fallacy. There already is a solution, but people still don't follow it because it isn't a magical pill, or for x other reason. Laziness and ignorance is the "obesity epidemic".
    Make America Great Again

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    • #32
      Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
      You can continue to ignore the point of my original post - that "millions of people" have not successfully lost weight and kept it off using a high carb protocol of any sort. Or any other protocol. If there existed a highly successful weight loss formula, the country wouldn't have an obesity problem.

      Citation still needed.
      i understand that you are new to this and you're excited about it. but you truly have no idea what you're talking about. slow down. re-read the pb. check out some other sources online. it will do you good in the long run.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
        If millions of people were losing 100 or more pounds each on a weight loss program of eating lots of carbs, there would be no problem in this country with morbid obesity. 2% or fewer of those who go on diets lose the weight they intend to and keep it off, and most diets include lots of carbs.
        Who said anything about keeping it off? You're putting words in my mouth. If people gain back the weight they lost, they simply changed their CICO (consciously or unconsciously) by eating more food, getting less exercise/activity, metabolic downregulation, and/OR changing the foods they eat and replaced them with foods that have a lesser thermal effect. E.g., replaced 200 calories of chicken breast with 200 calories of ice cream

        Millions of people lose weight eating a high or moderately high carb diet. Keeping it off is another issue entirely, you are confusing the argument. Why would someone gain back weight by eating carbs if eating carbs already brought them to a loss? You ont just magically start regaining weight by eating exactly what you lost weight eating. The only answer is the deficit or maintenance was altered somehow. It is not carbs that changed, its the other variables.

        And if you want proof that millions lose weight eating carbs, look no further than weight watchers, Jenny Craig, and nutri system. Thy all have high success rates because thy DO work to take weight off. Any deficit will yield weight loss results.

        It's not rocket science to understand that in order to keep the weight off you cannot revert back to habits or carelessness that may have gotten you to an overweight stage.

        Eating 200g carbs day = can lose weight!
        Eating 200g carbs day = insidious weight gain; regain all teh lost weight!1!@

        Does not make sense unless SOMETHING else changes.
        Last edited by j3nn; 03-11-2013, 12:00 PM.
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        “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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        • #34
          Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
          i understand that you are new to this and you're excited about it. but you truly have no idea what you're talking about. slow down. re-read the pb. check out some other sources online. it will do you good in the long run.
          I get it, really. I have been wheat-free for a decade, and you?

          You don't have data so you can make it up and pretend it's real. Right? Or have you located those millions of people who have successfully lost weight yet?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by j3nn View Post
            Eating 200g carbs day = can lose weight!
            Eating 200g carbs day = insidious weight gain; regain all teh lost weight!1!@

            Does not make sense unless SOMETHING else changes.
            How about this:

            Eating 200g potatoes and/or rice = can lose weight!
            Eating 200g refined sugar+flour = insidious weight gain; regain all teh lost weight!1!@

            That actually makes sense...

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            • #36
              Potatoes and white rice are fine in moderation. If you don't buy organic, do peel them before preparing. They're getting as yuckie as strawberries and greens if not organic. Potatoes grow in the ground along with beets, carrots, turnips, etc. Nothing wrong there. And white rice is so processed from its original form, that it's practically a filler food.

              Find the carb level with which you're comfortable. Find a food tracker so you can see how many carbs are in different portion sizes of various carbs that you like. You don't have to eat any food daily and you don't really have to avoid any food for the rest of your life (within reason and the parameters of your health issues, if any).

              I believe in the calorie model. However, keeping carbs lower seems to keep me from being hungry all the time. But that's just me, not everyone.
              "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

              B*tch-lite

              Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by otzi View Post
                How about this:

                Eating 200g potatoes and/or rice = can lose weight!
                Eating 200g refined sugar+flour = insidious weight gain; regain all teh lost weight!1!@

                That actually makes sense...
                Actually, not quite. I am positive in a true deficit you can still lose weight eating pure sugar and flour, but some carb-heavy sources have a higher thermal effect than others; banana is metabolized differently than soda with HFCs. This is what's important to understand.

                Eta: the 200g was an arbitrary number used as an example, before someone takes it literally and absolutely.
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                “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                  I get it, really. I have been wheat-free for a decade, and you?

                  You don't have data so you can make it up and pretend it's real. Right? Or have you located those millions of people who have successfully lost weight yet?
                  i don't even know what you're talking about. i think you are confusing something that someone else said with me. i never said a damn thing about millions of people.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by j3nn View Post
                    Actually, not quite. I am positive in a true deficit you can still lose weight eating pure sugar and flour, but some carb-heavy sources have a higher thermal effect than others; banana is metabolized differently than soda with HFCs. This is what's important to understand.

                    Eta: the 200g was an arbitrary number used as an example, before someone takes it literally and absolutely.
                    I knew what you were saying...but I think a diet high in refined sugar and flour can lead to things like inflammation and overeating on other foods, where a diet in real foods, even starch, is more in line with good health and weight stability.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by otzi View Post
                      I knew what you were saying...but I think a diet high in refined sugar and flour can lead to things like inflammation and overeating on other foods, where a diet in real foods, even starch, is more in line with good health and weight stability.
                      Sure, agreed. Increasing or decreasing the odds of overeating; satiety vs. bottomless pit, etc. but calories still rule. If someone is willing to endure hunger to ingest empty foods in a deficit, they'll still lose. Not smart, but possible.

                      I think lean cuisine and snack well clock-watching grazers are evidence of this. I remember those days. Real food <3
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                      “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by j3nn View Post
                        I think lean cuisine and snack well clock-watching grazers are evidence of this. I remember those days. Real food <3
                        Another huge difference between eating like that and eating PB (with or without carbs) is that people eating Lean Cuisine and counting calories are doing nothing for their nutrition and never really learn to eat right. When they quit counting calories, their body is so starved of nutrients you go into a state of overfeeding to re-supply yourself with the nutrition you need. I think this is what leads to rebound weight gain more than anything. Losing weight slowly on PB gets you in a mindset of seeking out the most nourishing foods with fewest calories and more sensible weightloss.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by otzi View Post
                          Another huge difference between eating like that and eating PB (with or without carbs) is that people eating Lean Cuisine and counting calories are doing nothing for their nutrition and never really learn to eat right. When they quit counting calories, their body is so starved of nutrients you go into a state of overfeeding to re-supply yourself with the nutrition you need. I think this is what leads to rebound weight gain more than anything. Losing weight slowly on PB gets you in a mindset of seeking out the most nourishing foods with fewest calories and more sensible weightloss.
                          Yes! Agreed. Losing weight slowly and thoughtfully is best regardless of your protocol. Health is my end game, not numbers on a scale.
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                          “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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                          • #43
                            Hi Serenity

                            What difference did increasing carbs make to your health, mood and energy etc?

                            Peace x

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by not on the rug View Post
                              exactly where does mark say that his primal diet is "minimal carbs?" or that carbs "don't give any benefit?" or that they are "counterproductive to weight/fat loss?" if eating potatoes was counterproductive to weight/fat loss, how is it that many people here are having success with (ridiculous) potato diets and whatnot?
                              He has certainly said that rice gives very little benefit. Due to all the nutrients being inaccessible by our bodies. He also often states that carbs are not required to live healthy however many foods with other essential nutrients contain carbs.

                              He advocates 100 to 150 grams of carbs per day which is approx. 400 to 600 calories. This would be considered low or minimal by most people considering the typical western diet comprises of 50% carbs or more.

                              Here's a quote which sort of gets his point across but I can't be arsed to trail through his posts for others :-)

                              "Now, I don’t hate carbohydrate. They can be useful and even beneficial in certain cases. Eat carbs when you need fuel for endurance activities. Don’t eat carbs just because; eat them because you need the energy. Because you’re actually active and they won’t go to waste."

                              People will certainly have success on the "potato" diet or other carb based ones. This is because they are still cutting down on however many carbs they were previously eating and that they're most likely eating better quality carbs rather than processed sugary ones. Generally people with success in these diets are already heavily overweight in the first place, so they will see much more impact than a leaner person.

                              The lower your body fat the lower the effectiveness of reducing/changing your carb intake.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Padz View Post
                                He has certainly said that rice gives very little benefit. Due to all the nutrients being inaccessible by our bodies. He also often states that carbs are not required to live healthy however many foods with other essential nutrients contain carbs.

                                He advocates 100 to 150 grams of carbs per day which is approx. 400 to 600 calories. This would be considered low or minimal by most people considering the typical western diet comprises of 50% carbs or more.

                                Here's a quote which sort of gets his point across but I can't be arsed to trail through his posts for others :-)

                                "Now, I don’t hate carbohydrate. They can be useful and even beneficial in certain cases. Eat carbs when you need fuel for endurance activities. Don’t eat carbs just because; eat them because you need the energy. Because you’re actually active and they won’t go to waste."

                                People will certainly have success on the "potato" diet or other carb based ones. This is because they are still cutting down on however many carbs they were previously eating and that they're most likely eating better quality carbs rather than processed sugary ones. Generally people with success in these diets are already heavily overweight in the first place, so they will see much more impact than a leaner person.

                                The lower your body fat the lower the effectiveness of reducing/changing your carb intake.
                                so.. you can't answer any of my questions. thats what i thought. 150 grams, like you said, is 600 calories. certainly not minimal carbs. your last 2 statements are utter nonsense. much like the other nonsense you're spouting here. "carbs" are different than rice or potatoes or wheat or even the carbs from vegetables. confusing those terms is half of the problem. the other half is that mark's carb curve is complete arbitrary pseudoscience at its finest. there is nothing inherently unhealthy, dangerous, or fattening about a carbohydrate. period. wheat has antinutrients, gluten, etc. rice is relatively innate. i don't think people here are eating it for its nutrient content. they are eating it to consume more carbohydrates. so yes, it does have a benefit. i think a lot of people on this forum are missing the point with this carb debate, which really shouldn't even be a debate. yes, some people do well on low carb diets, vlc diets, etc. some do it for medical reasons. some do it just to experiment with their body. too many people are stuck in the "if some is good, then less must be better" mentality. the average person does not to be in ketosis in order to lose weight or be healthy. hell, the average person could eat mcdonalds all day long, but as long as they created a caloric surplus, they would lose weight. they might not be as healthy as a guy eating salmon and leafy greens and potatoes, but they would still lose weight the same. for the majority of people, carbs have nothing to do with this equation.

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