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Why "primal" and not 19th century?

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  • Why "primal" and not 19th century?

    Hi everyone,

    I'm sorry if this is a silly question but everything I read states that the obesity epedemic in the US is a product of the late 20th century. If so, then why do we have to go all the way back to cave man days? Why not model a diet on what our great grandparents would have eaten? I assume that data would be more available? I'm really curious about why there is so little discussion about recreating a 19th century or turn of the century diet?

    Thanks all. This is a great site!

    -Jodie
    Last edited by Traderjodie; 03-09-2013, 12:54 PM.

  • #2
    The Paleo hypothesis is that all foods introduced or consumed in greater quantity at the dawn of agriculture are what contribute to chronic disease and food allergies/intolerances. Neolithic foods in general are what Paleo believes to be incompatible with the human body. But it is just a theory. There are many conflicting theories, this thread being one of them. I think your question makes a lot of sense, and it's basically in line with WAPF protocol, which works great for many who follow it.
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    “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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    • #3
      I actually pretty much agree with the OP and pretty much ask myself, "How did Grandma do this?" rather than, "How did Grok do this?"

      Factory chickens pretty much became common in the 1950s.
      Factory pork and beef in the 1970s.
      1955, Ray Kroc buys McD and in 1958 McD sold its 100 millionth burger (per the McD website).
      GMO rice, corn, and wheat - the 1980s was the beginning.

      Some people posit that farming was the beginning of the end of robust health, and that's fine also for them.

      Why I tend to agree with the OP's idea is that in my family (nut) tree, my grandparents' and great grandparents' generations typically lived to their late 80s and a few to their early to mid 90s, where my parents' generation have more been living to their late 70s - some will obviously live longer because some of them are still alive nearing 80. The single biggest change in those generations is the food supply available to the average supermarket shopper.

      Anyway, that's my take. So, I'm happy to aim at a 1940s and 50s diet.
      Last edited by JoanieL; 03-09-2013, 12:52 PM. Reason: to correct a decade
      "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

      B*tch-lite

      Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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      • #4
        Thanks for the quick replies! I have never heard of WAPF. I'm going to go look it up.

        -Jodie

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Traderjodie View Post
          Thanks for the quick replies! I have never heard of WAPF. I'm going to go look it up.

          -Jodie
          Google nourishing traditions. It's a great book that might interest you on this topic!
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          “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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          • #6
            The problem with any diet is people spend so much time trying to figure the perfect diet to live the longest, and somewhere along the way they forget to actually live the life they're trying to preserve. Most older generations didn't have to worry about this, so you can chalk up yet more stress to our growing health problems.

            Paleo is most guilty of this, as they are by far the most OCD group I've encountered yet.
            Last edited by Derpamix; 03-09-2013, 01:10 PM.
            Make America Great Again

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
              The problem with any diet is people spend so much time trying to figure the perfect diet to live the longest, and somewhere along the way they forget to actually live the life they're trying to preserve. Most older generations didn't have to worry about this, so you can chalk up yet more stress to our growing health problems.

              Paleo is most guilty of this, as they are by far the most OCD group I've encountered yet.
              Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Stress is probably worse than grains.
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              “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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              • #8
                Originally posted by j3nn View Post
                Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Stress is probably worse than grains.
                Yeah, and it goes for things beyond diet too. In order to live "true paleo", and aspire to achieve the same health, you have to extend it far beyond just food.

                I actually agree with some principals of paleo, such as spending more time in nature(ever gone hiking in the woods, mountains, etc and felt stressed or pissed off?) which is just basically getting back to our roots. Self-domestication is the worst thing that's ever happened to humans, and we're reaping it now.

                The blank soulless stare on most people you see is not just the product of food, but of the group that puts this junk out there for us to eat in the first place.
                Make America Great Again

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                • #9
                  I completely disagree. As someone who is Celiac, I don't find food stressful at all. It's an absolute. I can have this, not that, period. A lot of people who are Paleo for the health benefits have the same attitude. It's what you make it.

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                  • #10
                    Congratulations, but the vast majority of people who find themselves going on this diet find themselves battling with "cravings", limiting entire healthy food groups because of an asinine carb curb, and basically believing everything said in this side of spectrum without doing an ounce of their own personal research, which is why they ask the dumbest questions you'll ever see in your entire life and want their hand held throughout the whole process. This is the same behavior that is the problem with society and putting absolute authority over yourself in the hands of another person.

                    I have problems with people telling me what to do.

                    If you find yourself combing over ingredients, avoiding social activities at restaurants, etc; odds are you're not as stress-free as you think.
                    Make America Great Again

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Catharsis View Post
                      I completely disagree. As someone who is Celiac, I don't find food stressful at all. It's an absolute. I can have this, not that, period. A lot of people who are Paleo for the health benefits have the same attitude. It's what you make it.
                      I agree. There are plenty of foods on my "these are the foods I eat" list. Foods I no longer eat aren't on my mind.

                      Think of how stressful it must be for people stuck on the SAD to go someplace strange not knowing whether there'll be a McDonalds or Pizza Hut to eat at.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                        I have problems with people telling me what to do.
                        To the point where you ignore intelligent, well researched advice? That seems counterproductive, like you're a slave to making sure you don't do what people say, as opposed to those who do everything people say. I don't see much difference. I just do what I think seems reasonable and intelligent.

                        Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                        If you find yourself combing over ingredients, avoiding social activities at restaurants, etc; odds are you're not as stress-free as you think.
                        Agree. But I honestly don't think that's the norm here. There will always be people that take things to an extreme, but it's just the outliers.
                        Durp.

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                        • #13
                          19th century diet an lifestyle is a great way to model your life. One of my heros, Arthur Saxon had a great impact on my current way of living. One of the strongest men to ever life, well before the steroid age.

                          Basically daily calistenics and weight training, lots of walking and outdoors life, tons of great food and keeping stress to a bare minimum. Trying to kick the electronics habit too but coming here and arguing over carbs is just so much fun.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RitaRose View Post
                            To the point where you ignore intelligent, well researched advice? That seems counterproductive, like you're a slave to making sure you don't do what people say, as opposed to those who do everything people say. I don't see much difference. I just do what I think seems reasonable and intelligent.
                            I don't ignore it, the exact opposite in fact. I just actively oppose all things that I think are wrong. Nothing I've read scrutinizing carbohydrates is anything of what you said, it's actually just like the experiment done to show the essentiality of unsaturated fats, whole grains being heart healthy, the entire depression chemical imbalance myth, and even tobacco being bad for you.

                            Most of my free time is spent trying to further my knowledge of all things, but there is rarely any of what you said.

                            And if you don't think that's the normal behavior here, please go and search for anything using the keyword "carb" and see how many hits you come up with. Or, worse, sugar.
                            Make America Great Again

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                            • #15
                              The biggest problem with online communities like this is when factoids replace facts. It's wise to ignore the pseudoscience and fear-mongering in favor of reason and stress-free choices. I think most diet protocols involve too much overanalyzation, especially when its creator has a marketing agenda and needs to keep followers on the hook.
                              Last edited by j3nn; 03-09-2013, 02:11 PM.
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                              “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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