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  • #31
    Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Sorry, I still disagree.

    Circulatory disease and osteoporosis? One of the primary causes of these things are a lack of weight training. Study after study have shown that men and overweight women are resistant to osteoporosis because the additional weight carried keeps bones strong. Osteoporosis is prevalent in thin, older women. Weight training will improve both substantially by increasing the size of blood vessels and promoting bone growth and development. People that lift rarely ever get osteoporosis.

    Spinal injuries? So? Don't squat with heavy weight/any weight. Doing body weight squats and simply deadlifting a bar will improve ROM and flexibility without putting stress on weak joints. Both movements are great for physical therapy.

    Neurological disorders? Huh? Maybe narcoleptics shouldn't be squatting. But what percentage of the population are they? Instead of focusing on the 0.5% of people that shouldn't be doing these movements, how about we focus on the 99.5% that should be? So many people on this forum love to try and tear down an argument because of some rare exception that virtually no one belongs to. Let's focus on reality, here.
    Believe me I'm not disagreeing with you for the fun of it. It's just that the church of Riptoe has a far reach and I like to throw in some facts:

    Fact: If you are talking osteo and cardio PREVENTION no study has shown squat/deadlift/bench to be superior to any other resistance exercise. So touting this for a "you gotta squat!" is quite sketchy since many of the studies use machine weights rather than free weight exercises.

    When you already have these disorders its on a sliding scale from mild to severe and what you can do in a gym will be determined by where on that scale you fall. And if you really think this is only applicable to 0.5% of the population at large you gotta bone up on your health statistics.

    The point is that you actually don't need to do these things as prescribed by Rip to get strong and stay healthy. They are tools to be used for sure. But use them for the right jobs.

    An active lifesyle/job may very well be all you need if your goals are simply health and longevity... in fact studies several epidemiological studies sure appear to support this.

    I deal more frequently with people who have the above maladies so perhaps I'm a bit more cognizant of their reality. Its far different from a weak otherwise able bodied individual just trying to get stronger. I think pushing Rip on 100% of the population is just as bad as telling every single person that ketosis is the only way to live and if they can't do it they will never be healthy.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 03-04-2013, 11:16 AM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by janie View Post
      THIS

      So agree.

      Choco - what about people who already HAVE these conditions?? I could not do the workouts you recommend, yet working around age, old injuries & health issues, I've managed to build more muscle and haven't gone near a barbell.






      I'm sorry, what was the excuse again? The only people that I want to hear making excuses are people with no arms and legs.




      And even that's stretching it.
      Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 03-04-2013, 11:19 AM.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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      • #33
        This man is in my lifting group on Facebook. Really nice kid.




        I wonder what he'd say about people who "can't lift" due to various issues. Lifting weights is a great way to help reverse arthritis and osteoporosis.
        Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 03-04-2013, 11:20 AM.
        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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        • #34
          Nice pics and I'm happy for them. However, if I'm not careful I'll wind up flat on my back with weeks of recovery.

          One of the things I dislike about this board is the insistence that everyone has the same capacities. One-size-fits-all is only true in a cheap clothing store.
          Starting Weight: 197.5
          Current Weight: 123
          Far healthier!

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          • #35
            Ripped does not equal healthy. That guy just looks hungry.
            Crohn's, doing SCD

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            • #36
              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post

              I'm sorry, what was the excuse again? The only people that I want to hear making excuses are people with no arms and legs.

              And even that's stretching it.
              LOL, most people can do the movements, but it doesen't follow that it is the best thing to do if you are not a powerlifter! Why do a movement if it's not the most optimal thing to do for what you are training for?

              I have been long enough in a gym to see that many people will be better off by doing other movements. Take the squat as an example if you are very tall and long limbed, you may get better quad strength and developments from other exercises, so insted of waisting your time squatting on your lower back, you can do leg-press instead if that helps to get better results for your legs, while saving lower back! Personally I suck in squat because of long limbs, but due to long arms I am not that bad in deadlifts, especially sumo deads! I am very good in legpress though and most of my leg development and strength is because of that exercise.

              Yes, most people can do squats and dead movements, but it's far from optimal for everybody...
              "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

              - Schopenhauer

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              • #37
                Also, the second geriatric woman doing deadlifts (with the white bumper plates) should try to keep her back more flat. Lumbar and thoracic spine should be in extension.
                The Champagne of Beards

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                • #38
                  I should have also pointed out that you seem to have missed the part of my post where I said I had built muscle w/o going near a barbell. In fact, an impedance test in October showed I'd gain 10 pounds of muscle, and I expect to see another growth of muscle when the next test is done in May. Barbells are not a necessity for all and my lower back rejects deadlifts. It just isn't the same for everyone.
                  Starting Weight: 197.5
                  Current Weight: 123
                  Far healthier!

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                    This man is in my lifting group on Facebook. Really nice kid.

                    I wonder what he'd say about people who "can't lift" due to various issues. Lifting weights is a great way to help reverse arthritis and osteoporosis.

                    Dunno... how much does he squat/deadlift? I mean that was the point you were on before posting a pic of this ripped dude in a wheelchair. Are you intentionally trying to contradict yourself?

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                      Dunno... how much does he squat/deadlift? I mean that was the point you were on before posting a pic of this ripped dude in a wheelchair. Are you intentionally trying to contradict yourself?
                      Hehe, I may be wrong but I guess that guy can bench more than he can squat or deadlift...
                      "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                      - Schopenhauer

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                      • #41
                        I'm old, and I do straight leg deadlifts and moderate range of motion fairly heavy squats. I go heavier with a spotter---only happens once or maybe twice a week. I do a full-body weight workout three times a week, despite night shifts and walking/running dogs 3 miles a day. But I can't do regular deadlifts, and I won't do cleans....I've already had one back surgery, and have no intent of another. OTOH, i can do 6 dead hang overhand pullups when last year I couldn't do one.

                        BTW, what happens when the two nurses on the floor who actually lift move the 300 lb deadweight patient? You crack their head on the headboard.......

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                        • #42
                          Reminds me of Grandma Gatewood. Pioneer ultralight backpacker.

                          "Most people are pantywaists. Exercise is good for you."
                          –Emma "Grandma" Gatewood, the first woman to through-hike the Appalachian Trail
                          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                            Dunno... how much does he squat/deadlift? I mean that was the point you were on before posting a pic of this ripped dude in a wheelchair. Are you intentionally trying to contradict yourself?
                            While I find your attempt to troll with a strawman amusing, it won't work.

                            The point is if you won't do squats, deadlifts and benchpresses, you better be missing limbs. Hell, even people with missing limbs are still doing them to an extent. You have no excuse. Having weak bones and a limited range of motion is not an excuse to not lift. It is a reason to lift, since it strengthens your bones and increases ROM dramatically. It isn't all about super heavy weight. It's about the heaviest weight you can move comfortably. If that's 40 lbs or 400 lbs, do the motions with some weight. That is what counts.
                            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                            • #44
                              What about Yogis from Asia? Are they weak, at risk for disease, etc. because they don't do those movements with large weights?
                              My chocolatey Primal journey

                              Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by janie View Post
                                One of the things I dislike about this board is the insistence that everyone has the same capacities. One-size-fits-all is only true in a cheap clothing store.
                                I agree. While I have all my body parts I also have cerebral palsy which involves brain damage. With this in mind my brain can not tell my body how to do certain things.

                                I think all the "shoulds" and "should nots" that get thrown around on this forum can be a real primal turn off for many people. And I find that sad.

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