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Some thoughts from a still new PBer.

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  • #31
    Toubes and Lustig should be tarred and feathered.

    Its not sugar, its artificial foods. People say they binge on snickers, ice cream, etc. guess what. That stuff may be sweet but its also full of chemicals and fat. Try binging on fruit, nothing but fruit. Stop blaming sugar or carbs. By the way, binges are usually brought on by nutritional deficiencies (undereating/crash dieting), you body is screaming for some nutrient dense food and you interpret that as a signal for junk food and binge. Its a vicious cycle and one that can be broken but completely obstaining from an entire macronutriant is not the answer, long term. Very few people will ever be able to control their cravings forever because its your body wanting something. Fighting your body is always a losing battle.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
      I apologize again, and I don't want to discourage you. I lost a lot of weight eating no sugar and low carb, so I have no doubts you can do it as well, and I hope it helps with the binging.
      Thank you.

      And I did click on your link and I didn't understand a word of it.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Zach View Post
        Toubes and Lustig should be tarred and feathered.

        Its not sugar, its artificial foods. People say they binge on snickers, ice cream, etc. guess what. That stuff may be sweet but its also full of chemicals and fat. Try binging on fruit, nothing but fruit. Stop blaming sugar or carbs. By the way, binges are usually brought on by nutritional deficiencies (undereating/crash dieting), you body is screaming for some nutrient dense food and you interpret that as a signal for junk food and binge. Its a vicious cycle and one that can be broken but completely obstaining from an entire macronutriant is not the answer, long term. Very few people will ever be able to control their cravings forever because its your body wanting something. Fighting your body is always a losing battle.
        I have binged on fruit before.

        I don't 'crash diet' or 'undereat'. I eat plenty of foods packed with nutrients.

        Yesterday, during a binge, I ate three nectarines, five clementines and honey straight from the bottle. All of this only thirty minutes after dinner.

        I think you are making some assumptions.

        Edit: My point being that not everyone is the same.
        Last edited by the_walrus0; 03-03-2013, 03:01 PM.

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        • #34
          I agree. Binging on fruit is easy!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by DeeDub View Post
            I agree. Binging on fruit is easy!
            I have, on more than one occasion, eaten 4+ cups of berries. I absolutely love berries. I've also binged on fairly dark chocolate. 85% I think. And it wasn't full of chemicals and additives. I really think it was the sugar because I eat 1 square of unsweetened bakers chocolate and it's delicious but I'm completely satisfied with one square.

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            • #36
              You ever try a fruit based diet? I eat %70~ of my calories from fruit and was able to lean out the last 20lbs doing it

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              • #37
                Originally posted by the_walrus0 View Post
                So it's my second month into PB. I haven't been calculating my nutrients except every few days I tally up my calories to see if it's been crazy. More of than not, it hasn't been.

                I have noticed that sugar is, at least for me, addicting. And I'm not using the word 'addicting' playfully. I'm very serious when I say that I think sugar is the sole cause of my weight gain and binge eating over most of my life. Maybe that's drastic, but for me it makes complete sense and explains a lot of my issues with weight and food.

                I have been reading Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes and listening to the audiobook for Why We Get Fat. I am also reading Fat Chance by Robert Lustig(The guy who did the Sugar: The Bitter Truth).

                It might seem silly to some long-timers but I only recently realized I have a binge eating disorder. I started doing research on that and found books that suggested years of therapy and basically said that I must have had some traumatic experience that causes me to overeat. So I tried meditation, yoga, talking my feelings out, looking for triggers, avoiding those triggers, trying to come to peace with every bad thing that's ever happened and attempting to become a Buddhist. Now, I don't think any of those things are inherently wrong but they weren't helping.

                So I thought, "WHY do I have BED? Where does it start? Why does it persist? Why is my body driving me to do something that's killing it?"

                I ended up here and it feels like I'm having epiphanies everyday. When I eat a fully primal diet and avoid excessive carbs and completely abstain from sugar I almost consistently eat, without thinking, the amount of calories it would take to lose 1-2 lbs a week for my weight. Of course, abstaining from sugar is easier said than done. Which led me to another epiphany. How many binges have been driven by an insatiable urge to consume sugar? Basically all of them! Otherwise the urge was to consume massive quantities of grains.

                Again, this is probably nothing new to all of you, but I'm feeling pretty enlightened and I think I'm on the path to being free of my BED, as long as I remain primal. By the way, the thought of being primal forever does not frighten me. I am loving it. Right now my issue lies in staying away from sugar and I'm working at it very hard.

                I just wanted to share these things with everyone. I love hearing other people's insight.
                Good deal! Keep up with the thinking and the PB. Sounds like your on track to improving both your mental and physical state. Don't mind the nay sayers. I been eating as a human should for three years now and plan on continuing to do so too
                Last edited by Neckhammer; 03-03-2013, 06:37 PM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                  Timthetaco I don't think you understand sugar addiction. At all.
                  Sugar addiction is not enjoying some fruits and carbs in addition to your meats and veggies. Sugar addiction is eating a big meal, then a brownie with ice cream, then more ice cream, then more brownie. It's mindlessly eating a 1lb bag of snickers bars and not being able to stop.
                  .
                  That's the problem I have with some statements that get made here though. The sugar gets blamed when it's more of a personal characteristic. Yes both sugar, fat, alcohol and other foods can be "addictive" but it's not the fault of these substances. I have problems with certain dairy food but I wouldn't blame cream for being overly appealing.
                  And the majority of times when people refer to "sugar binges" they are usually referring to "sugar, fat, dairy and other junk" binges, not apple, plain honey or white sugar binges. Snickers for instance have more calories from fat than sugar.

                  You can start to lose your tastes for sugar and fat by cutting right down on both but it can be rather fruitless activity that can lead to even more impulsive tenancies with these foods. It did for me, I knew there was something wrong with me when I started craving banana and banana flavored foods. lol. I have always disliked bananas.
                  Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 03-03-2013, 06:48 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
                    That's the problem I have with some statements that get made here though. The sugar gets blamed when it's more of a personal characteristic. Yes both sugar, fat, alcohol and other foods can be "addictive" but it's not the fault of these substances. I have problems with certain dairy food but I wouldn't blame cream for being overly appealing.
                    And the majority of times when people refer to "sugar binges" they are usually referring to "sugar, fat, dairy and other junk" binges, not apple, plain honey or white sugar binges. Snickers for instance have more calories from fat than sugar.

                    You can start to lose your tastes for sugar and fat by cutting right down on both but it can be rather fruitless activity that can lead to even more impulsive tenancies with these foods. It did for me, I knew there was something wrong with me when I started craving banana and banana flavored foods. lol. I have always disliked bananas.
                    I think there are a lot of different views on the boards, which is wonderful, and I also think that sometimes people(like myself for instance) type things up excitedly or in a conversational way that oversimplifies things. I don't blame sugar. Well, I suppose I blame sugar for myself. In fact I blame sweet tasting things, not just sugar. Honey, fruit, agave...these things will all inspire me to binge. I know Lustig isn't popular with everyone here but he does talk about the reward center. I fully believe my reward center is triggered by these foods.

                    I think that eating sugar doesn't help me. Cutting it out does help me. Cutting it out didn't help you. Obviously we're very different.

                    If someone cuts out sugar, stops binging, loses weight and gains some health does it really matter if they pinpoint sugar as the culprit? For most people, it wouldn't. Besides, the only places I really enjoy sugar are all the places I don't need to be looking anyways, which are mostly processed foods. I will say, in my personal experience, I can find very creative ways to eat white sugar when binging. I have, in fact, eaten it with a spoon. Anything for the sweetness of sugar. So to me, sugar is the culprit. All by it's lonesome. I don't eat salt out of the container or hunt for fat in my fridge. I want something sweet.

                    You say "Sugar, fat, alcohol and certain foods can be "addictive" but it's not the fault of these substances." Well, if someone has an addictive personality that causes them to overindulge and become addicted to the point of being unhealthy and the only really helpful thing to do is abstain then I would say yes, it is the fault of those substances, for those people and in their situations.

                    Anyways, those are just my thoughts. As someone who's been addicted to cigarettes, alcohol and cocaine I can tell you that this sugar "addiction" feels as much like any other substance addiction. You wouldn't tell a cocaine addict not to completely give up cocaine because there's proof that having a little cocaine here and there wouldn't hurt you, because that's silly. The cocaine addict can't just 'have a bump' because, like the AA saying, One is too many and one hundred is not enough.

                    Sorry if that's long and silly, but it's my thoughts. I figured this is the place to discuss them.

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                    • #40
                      To the OP. Good on you for finding something that finally worked for you. I was in the same boat with bingeing until I went primal. At first, it wasn't 100% no bingeing, but they were much much less frequent. Then after a 6 month long binge I went specifically HFLC, and actually counted for a bit there. I never had the urge to binge since, and still have not.
                      But I do have to stay away from all sugar, even fruit as it does set up cravings for sweet things, and I am not ready to go there yet, but I do still have over 100 lbs to lose.
                      Good luck to you, and hope you are able to become totally binge free.
                      I don't know exactly what did it, but I feel so free now, which is huge after being a huge binger/low fat dieter due to all sorts of emotions for 12 years.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by the_walrus0 View Post
                        I think there are a lot of different views on the boards, which is wonderful, and I also think that sometimes people(like myself for instance) type things up excitedly or in a conversational way that oversimplifies things. I don't blame sugar. Well, I suppose I blame sugar for myself. In fact I blame sweet tasting things, not just sugar. Honey, fruit, agave...these things will all inspire me to binge. I know Lustig isn't popular with everyone here but he does talk about the reward center. I fully believe my reward center is triggered by these foods.
                        The reward center is also triggered by fat. This is generally built in to all humans. It doesn't mean these foods are bad. These can lead us to energy dense food sources which would keep us alive. In the modern world this isn't so advantageous when they are available almost every meal.

                        Originally posted by the_walrus0 View Post

                        If someone cuts out sugar, stops binging, loses weight and gains some health does it really matter if they pinpoint sugar as the culprit? For most people, it wouldn't.
                        I think it does. When someone goes vegetarian but also cuts out some other junk along with it and becomes much healthier I don't think it's entirely accurate to pinpoint only the meat. You'll see a lot of vegans attest to how cutting out meat and eggs made them feel so much better. I don't doubt that some of them do, especially people who do much better on a lower protein diet, but a lot of the time I'll guess that cutting other out other junk had a lot to do with it.
                        Originally posted by the_walrus0 View Post
                        Besides, the only places I really enjoy sugar are all the places I don't need to be looking anyways, which are mostly processed foods. I will say, in my personal experience, I can find very creative ways to eat white sugar when binging. I have, in fact, eaten it with a spoon. Anything for the sweetness of sugar. So to me, sugar is the culprit. All by it's lonesome. I don't eat salt out of the container or hunt for fat in my fridge. I want something sweet.
                        I have had plain cream and yogurt binges as well so I don't doubt it's possible to binge plain sugar. I have binged on other fairly bland foods as well., but generally it was a combination of fat/sugar.

                        Originally posted by the_walrus0 View Post

                        You say "Sugar, fat, alcohol and certain foods can be "addictive" but it's not the fault of these substances." Well, if someone has an addictive personality that causes them to overindulge and become addicted to the point of being unhealthy and the only really helpful thing to do is abstain then I would say yes, it is the fault of those substances, for those people and in their situations.

                        Anyways, those are just my thoughts. As someone who's been addicted to cigarettes, alcohol and cocaine I can tell you that this sugar "addiction" feels as much like any other substance addiction. You wouldn't tell a cocaine addict not to completely give up cocaine because there's proof that having a little cocaine here and there wouldn't hurt you, because that's silly. The cocaine addict can't just 'have a bump' because, like the AA saying, One is too many and one hundred is not enough.

                        Sorry if that's long and silly, but it's my thoughts. I figured this is the place to discuss them.
                        That's fair. As long as you don't go all Lustig and start calling for some kind of prohibition. The cocaine comparison isn't exactly rational. Sugar is a nutrient and is found in thousands of health promoting foods. Cocaine is , well, cocaine.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
                          To the OP. Good on you for finding something that finally worked for you. I was in the same boat with bingeing until I went primal. At first, it wasn't 100% no bingeing, but they were much much less frequent. Then after a 6 month long binge I went specifically HFLC, and actually counted for a bit there. I never had the urge to binge since, and still have not.
                          But I do have to stay away from all sugar, even fruit as it does set up cravings for sweet things, and I am not ready to go there yet, but I do still have over 100 lbs to lose.
                          Good luck to you, and hope you are able to become totally binge free.
                          I don't know exactly what did it, but I feel so free now, which is huge after being a huge binger/low fat dieter due to all sorts of emotions for 12 years.
                          This is so inspiring! I have been struggling for a very long time and sometimes it feels like nothing will help me.

                          Even though I was very optimistic in the original post I am still fighting strong urges to binge. I do have faith that I'll find a way though.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                            Timthetaco I don't think you understand sugar addiction. At all.
                            Sugar addiction is not enjoying some fruits and carbs in addition to your meats and veggies. Sugar addiction is eating a big meal, then a brownie with ice cream, then more ice cream, then more brownie. It's mindlessly eating a 1lb bag of snickers bars and not being able to stop.

                            I actually agree that carbs don't make us extra fat. But when some carbs have such a hold on you that you will go overeat thousands of calories they sure do.
                            This was my exact case. I would binge eat ice cream and brownies like there was no tomorrow. Yet once I eliminated grains and sugar, it never happened again.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by the_walrus0 View Post
                              This is so inspiring! I have been struggling for a very long time and sometimes it feels like nothing will help me.

                              Even though I was very optimistic in the original post I am still fighting strong urges to binge. I do have faith that I'll find a way though.
                              you will And it does get easier every time.

                              Every single "diet" in the past has set me off on binges also. Primal does not feel like a diet to me. I am never starving (I think this often started things off, on the non emotional eating binges) and I feel good overall, which also helps. Not run down ya know?

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
                                That's fair. As long as you don't go all Lustig and start calling for some kind of prohibition. The cocaine comparison isn't exactly rational. Sugar is a nutrient and is found in thousands of health promoting foods. Cocaine is , well, cocaine.
                                Actually since you mention it the similarities go beyond stimulating the same "feel good" brain hormones and reward centers. Both are quite detrimental to health as they are consumed by most people... they both undergo extensive processing to arrive at a very concentrated product. Chewing a fibrous piece of sugar cane or even a coca leaf is obviously not going to get you the same "high" as pounding straight sugar or snorting straight coke. In essence good luck getting enough of either substance to reach toxicity and/or addictive behavioral feedback patterns in whole form.... I don't see this happening with fat to be frank. The problem with fat is normally the displacement of healthy ones with oxidized rancid veggie oils.... not some sort of process induced reward overindulgence.
                                Last edited by Neckhammer; 03-03-2013, 08:02 PM.

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