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  • #16
    Originally posted by Little Women View Post
    Do you have a link for the "no more calcium or vitamin d"? I haven't seen that, yet.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/he...f=calcium&_r=0
    "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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    • #17
      Originally posted by NZ primal Gwamma View Post
      Would doing some light weight lifting be beneficial ???? and perhaps increase the weights as your bones strengthen? or am I way off track ?????
      I had started some lighter weight lifting assuming it would help. Now I wonder. If the Fosamax prevents bone replacement then weight-lifting would do no good. And if added estrogen is also necessary the risk factor increases a lot.
      "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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      • #18
        Bones need jarring to promote the building process.
        Your body reviews the pattern of behaviour and use, assesses the stresses and impacts and then determines how strong your bones need to be. This is why being in space, no gravity, causes osteoporosis.

        I saw a little segment a while ago on an aged care facility and they found the best outcome to minimise fractures was an exercise program and one of the most effective and simple ones was just getting the elderly patients to jump off a 4" block, a few repetitions a day was enough to turnaround the osteporosis in a couple of months.

        The old motto still stands, use it or lose it, going soft and protecting yourself may well have contributed to a worsening of your condition.

        Calcium supplementation can be dicy if it is not properly balanced with magnesium, silicate and other cofactors, a nutrient rich diet with a strong focus on bone broths would be far superior to supplementation IMO.
        "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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        • #19
          I am osteopenia in my hips and was a subject in a Multi year study. They had two groups of subjects. To qualify you had to be male, osteopenia in hips, low back or both with a prior back ground of regular exercise that excluded weight lifting. We received dexa scans and had regular periods of food journaling and blood tests. One group did plyometrics 2x weekly and suplimented calcium while the other group did cyclic barbell weight training and suplimented calcium. Each subject participates for 1-year. The study was to measure how the plyometrics compared with weight training to facilitate increase in bone density. I improved with the weight training in bone density as expected. The lifts I was doing included a back squat that was less than parallel, a deadlifts that started from a rack and did not have the weights touching the floor, bent over rows, seated military press, forward lunges and calf raises with the barbell on the back. It cycled 2-weeks 3x10 @ 50-60% max, 1-week moderate, 3x6-8reps @ 70-80%max, 1-week heavy, 3x4-6reps 80-90%max and then a max lift test during the rest week that followed the cycle. Along with the improved density, it proved to me the benefit of regular strength training and back healthfulness. I went from living with persistent back pain from my driving intensive outside sales job to living pain free much of my back trouble was due to weak support muscles. Private Doctors I had seen had blamed it on bad disks and the strain of repetitive bending and twisting getting in and out of the car and gave me an Rx for pain. I would highly recommended weight training with the rest of your treatment. At worst, it will slow the rate of bone loss as you age.

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          • #20
            Bone building slows with antiresorptives because inhibition of osteoclasts (resorb the bone) also inhibits osteoblasts (build bone), but to a lesser extent. So while you are, indeed, slowing bone building when you take the drugs, you are slowing the loss of bone more, tipping the balance in favor of denser bones.

            Folks, be careful. There's a big difference in risk for fracture between people who are osteopenic and osteoporotic. In my (unqualified, not a doctor) opinion, treatment of osteopenia is not warranted. But when you hit that osteoporotic range, things may change. If your T score is not improved on bisphosphonates (Boniva, Fosamax, Reclast, all the same class), you should consider that they are not working for you. There are alternatives.

            I'm the type of person that hates even taking Advil. I commend you for looking into nutritional and lifestyle means to address your health. But you definitely owe it to yourself to have very complete information regarding the risks of treating vs. not treating. Obviously tinkering with your body via drugs is something to take very seriously, but I think you need to be realistic and careful about buying into too much hype around side effects that occur very infrequently. That is, you need to really weigh based on data driven considerations more than emotional. Dental side effects should scare you, for example. Osteonecrosis of the jaw is a horrible thing. But hip fractures should also be a considerable cause for concern. They happen more frequently and are certainly not less detrimental to one's quality of life.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by NZ primal Gwamma View Post
              Would doing some light weight lifting be beneficial ???? and perhaps increase the weights as your bones strengthen? or am I way off track ?????
              Absolutely.

              Originally posted by Cryptocode View Post
              Are you all on estrogen therapy?
              No. Especially contraindicated fro people with a history of breast cancer.

              Originally posted by Omni View Post
              Bones need jarring to promote the building process.
              Your body reviews the pattern of behaviour and use, assesses the stresses and impacts and then determines how strong your bones need to be. This is why being in space, no gravity, causes osteoporosis.

              The old motto still stands, use it or lose it, going soft and protecting yourself may well have contributed to a worsening of your condition.

              Calcium supplementation can be dicy if it is not properly balanced with magnesium, silicate and other cofactors, a nutrient rich diet with a strong focus on bone broths would be far superior to supplementation IMO.
              This. Weight bearing exercise and bone broth.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by fatisyummy View Post
                Bone building slows with antiresorptives because inhibition of osteoclasts (resorb the bone) also inhibits osteoblasts (build bone), but to a lesser extent. So while you are, indeed, slowing bone building when you take the drugs, you are slowing the loss of bone more, tipping the balance in favor of denser bones.

                Folks, be careful. There's a big difference in risk for fracture between people who are osteopenic and osteoporotic. In my (unqualified, not a doctor) opinion, treatment of osteopenia is not warranted. But when you hit that osteoporotic range, things may change. If your T score is not improved on bisphosphonates (Boniva, Fosamax, Reclast, all the same class), you should consider that they are not working for you. There are alternatives.

                I'm the type of person that hates even taking Advil. I commend you for looking into nutritional and lifestyle means to address your health. But you definitely owe it to yourself to have very complete information regarding the risks of treating vs. not treating. Obviously tinkering with your body via drugs is something to take very seriously, but I think you need to be realistic and careful about buying into too much hype around side effects that occur very infrequently. That is, you need to really weigh based on data driven considerations more than emotional. Dental side effects should scare you, for example. Osteonecrosis of the jaw is a horrible thing. But hip fractures should also be a considerable cause for concern. They happen more frequently and are certainly not less detrimental to one's quality of life.
                I'm feeling quite stupid here, but what is a T score, in fact what is T, and how is it measured. I doubt mine has ever been measured so even if it is I won't know if it has improved or not.
                "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Omni View Post
                  Bones need jarring to promote the building process.
                  Your body reviews the pattern of behaviour and use, assesses the stresses and impacts and then determines how strong your bones need to be. This is why being in space, no gravity, causes osteoporosis.

                  I saw a little segment a while ago on an aged care facility and they found the best outcome to minimise fractures was an exercise program and one of the most effective and simple ones was just getting the elderly patients to jump off a 4" block, a few repetitions a day was enough to turnaround the osteporosis in a couple of months.

                  The old motto still stands, use it or lose it, going soft and protecting yourself may well have contributed to a worsening of your condition.

                  Calcium supplementation can be dicy if it is not properly balanced with magnesium, silicate and other cofactors, a nutrient rich diet with a strong focus on bone broths would be far superior to supplementation IMO.
                  No that sounds like something I can do safely. Jump off a 4" block 10 time a day. I'll at least do that. And light weights. Were those elderly people taking a medication for their osteoporosis?
                  "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                    Absolutely.

                    No. Especially contraindicated fro people with a history of breast cancer.

                    This. Weight bearing exercise and bone broth.
                    Done. I'm brewing up batches of bone broth. Thanks
                    "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by fatisyummy View Post
                      Bone building slows with antiresorptives because inhibition of osteoclasts (resorb the bone) also inhibits osteoblasts (build bone), but to a lesser extent. So while you are, indeed, slowing bone building when you take the drugs, you are slowing the loss of bone more, tipping the balance in favor of denser bones.

                      Folks, be careful. There's a big difference in risk for fracture between people who are osteopenic and osteoporotic. In my (unqualified, not a doctor) opinion, treatment of osteopenia is not warranted. But when you hit that osteoporotic range, things may change. If your T score is not improved on bisphosphonates (Boniva, Fosamax, Reclast, all the same class), you should consider that they are not working for you. There are alternatives.

                      I'm the type of person that hates even taking Advil. I commend you for looking into nutritional and lifestyle means to address your health. But you definitely owe it to yourself to have very complete information regarding the risks of treating vs. not treating. Obviously tinkering with your body via drugs is something to take very seriously, but I think you need to be realistic and careful about buying into too much hype around side effects that occur very infrequently. That is, you need to really weigh based on data driven considerations more than emotional. Dental side effects should scare you, for example. Osteonecrosis of the jaw is a horrible thing. But hip fractures should also be a considerable cause for concern. They happen more frequently and are certainly not less detrimental to one's quality of life.
                      Do you have any references or medical studies I can read? Apparently I'm fortunate to just stay the same.
                      "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        While the antiresorptives, bisphosphonates (Boniva, Fosamax, Reclast, all the same class), prevent the loss of bone density they do not prevent the loss of bone strength and the bones become very fragile. Thus, the longer I take this drug the weaker my bones become. If they are recycling bone material at all, weight lifting is a must, and also bone shocks (jumping). Bones structurally are an amorphous (non-crystalline) solid material like glass. And like glass they are strong in compression but very weak in tension and torsion.
                        "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by moonlights View Post
                          I have osteoporosis - I refused all the heavy duty chemicals (I'm only 30) because the side effects and risks (dental wise etc) were horrific. I'm now getting vitamin d injections and taking cholecalciferol - as an experiment. I'm usually on calcichew d3 forte. I'm told it won't be cured but hopefully won't get worse and may improve alittle.
                          Actually, at your age you can improve/build new bone. I don't know what caused your osteoporosis and chances of improving depend to a significant degree on what caused osteo. In some women osteo follows pregnancy/breastfeeding, but this form is usually transient. I think that age related, postmenopausal osteo is the most difficult to correct. BTW, we have some former anorexics on the forum - they should know that they are in danger of having an early osteo. I think that the most important thing is to know what was the cause.
                          Last edited by anna5; 02-27-2013, 06:08 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Cryptocode View Post
                            While the antiresorptives, bisphosphonates (Boniva, Fosamax, Reclast, all the same class), prevent the loss of bone density they do not prevent the loss of bone strength and the bones become very fragile. Thus, the longer I take this drug the weaker my bones become. If they are recycling bone material at all, weight lifting is a must, and also bone shocks (jumping). Bones structurally are an amorphous (non-crystalline) solid material like glass. And like glass they are strong in compression but very weak in tension and torsion.
                            This is not supported by bone biopsies subjected to mechanical stress in the laboratory. Or the clinical studies that show they reduce incidence of fracture.
                            Last edited by fatisyummy; 02-27-2013, 06:29 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cryptocode View Post
                              I'm feeling quite stupid here, but what is a T score, in fact what is T, and how is it measured. I doubt mine has ever been measured so even if it is I won't know if it has improved or not.
                              That would be the measure of your bone density. You stated yours was -2.5.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                So agree on bone broths, weight bearing exercises. To answer your question, Cryptocode, yes, I do take estrogen but only the prescribed bioidentical variety. There are a # of anti-aging docs in CA. It might be worth investigating to learn if hormone replacement would help you too.

                                Traditional medical literature will tell you that the meds are fine, but I don't put much trust in the big pharma owned FDA to protect me, and, sadly, anything contrary to their point of view does not get much press.
                                Starting Weight: 197.5
                                Current Weight: 123
                                Far healthier!

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