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  • #31
    I don't have much to say about the original topic other than to say I'm a tall woman, now in my mid-forties, who has been relatively slender her whole life. For those brief periods of time (usually less than a year), when I did find myself 10-15 lbs overweight, it was because I was eating absolute crap (fast food, frozen pizza, crackers, etc) on a consistent basis. I cut that shit out, I lose weight. My body really does seem to prefer the high-fat, low-carb WOE. But's that's just me. Your body may prefer something different.

    I do want to comment briefly on the horse topic. On a functional level, there is virtually no genetic difference between wild and domestic horses. "Wild" or feral horses in the American West travel up to 20-30 miles a day in search of grass, which for most of the year is relatively low in sugar. In the spring, when the sugar content of grass shoots way up, wild horses may pack on the pounds, but those fat stores are burned up later when the grass isn't as abundant or rich. So, for most of the year, the wild horse is moving most of the day, low and slow, and eating grasses with relatively lower sugar contents. These horses rarely have metabolic issues such as insulin-resistance or founder.

    What do we do with our domestic horses? We park them in a stall or in a lush pasture and feed them way more sugar than they need. We also greatly curtail their movement. They no longer have to walk 20 miles a day in search of food. The result is often horses with metabolic issues, which all too often present as hoof issues. Mustangs pulled off the range and placed in BLM holding pens will often develeop the same metabolic issues as domestic horses. The lesson learned here is that when we move a horse to far away from it's natural way of living, bad things can happen to it.

    I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the original topic, but there it is.

    ETA: Magnolia is correct that certain breeds of horses will have different caloric needs, but WHAT they should eat, and the need for movement, is consistent throughout the species.
    Last edited by Incindiary; 02-26-2013, 01:00 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Zach View Post
      Im sure there is no naturally obese wild horse. Horses get fat just like us, not enough exercise, not the right diet, takin in chemicals from food and water sources.
      Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
      What is not natural for any creature, including humans, is to be surrounded with high caloric density ready-to-eat food.
      Yal wild horses have a very tough time in the winter, so any new spring grass would be much needed I am guessing. So less likely they would founder, whereas our domestic pastured horses have been fed adequately all winter long, and then comes the spring grass on reseeded and fertilized pastures.... and then we manage the founder and they can survive.

      Any wild horses that would happen to founder, it would be quickly terminal.
      65lbs gone and counting!!

      Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Incindiary View Post
        I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the original topic, but there it is.
        Yal way off topic, but I love talking horses
        65lbs gone and counting!!

        Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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        • #34
          Originally posted by gopintos View Post
          Any wild horses that would happen to founder, it would be quickly terminal.
          Cadaver dissections of feral horses show that they can develop mild to moderate laminitis, so too much spring grass for a wild horse can cause metabolic upset. But you're right, a full-blown case of founder would be devastating.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
            PaleoMom~
            You may be better off focusing on nutrient density rather than just calories.
            +1

            No, +2
            Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

            Griff's cholesterol primer
            5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
            Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
            TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
            bloodorchid is always right

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            • #36
              Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
              +1

              No, +2
              I've already been doing that for years.
              PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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              • #37
                Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                My point was that horses have varied metabolisms that generally follow genetics. So a Thoroughbred will have a higher metabolism then a Quarter Horse. You average QH is not fat due to the wrong type of food, or a ruined metabolism from yoyo dieting. They just require less calories than your average TB and are being overfed. The only solution is more work or less food.
                Again, how widespread is the equine obesity epidemic? Why isn't the news covering this? Are the horses counting calories and doing Zumba 5 days a week, yet remaining fat?

                Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                If I give the QH more food, he just gets fatter. His metabolism doesn't adjust.
                I'm impressed that you even have the equipment necessary to determine a horse's precise metabolic rate.

                Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                This also holds true if you just have a bunch of horses in a pasture and are not feeding them.
                Wait, are you saying that horses will starve in a big old field full of grass? Don't horses eat grass? What is your argument exactly? That people lack metabolic flexibility, and you can prove it by showing me an overweight horse?
                The Champagne of Beards

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                • #38
                  So you really think that you aren't losing because you aren't eating enough?
                  I was being told this, but ive come to the realisation I was still eating too much for me, so I eat slightly less, I am never starving, and I feel good, and have energy and now the scales are consistently moving down more than they were.

                  Are you always hungry currently?
                  What is a typical day of food for you now? And how much weight do you have to lose?
                  Are you 100% primal, or do you have "treats" in there?

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                  • #39
                    I find the pet topic interesting. I'm currently looking at my cats wondering how all of this applies to them. I have two thin cats and one fat cat. They were all free-fed on grain free low carb food yet one is very overweight. I have tried taking the food away so that I could control his intake but it becomes difficult for the other cats. After this topic I feel like I should maybe go back to free-feeding for all. The overweight one may have been that way due to stress from a dog we no longer have, or another possibility is his constant congestion which he has had since kittenhood.
                    PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                    • #40
                      Cats need to have raw meat, grain free dry food may be grain free, but its still cooked.
                      Try raw, like chicken thigh, liver, kangaroo, chunks they need to gnaw through.
                      No need to free feed cats.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
                        So you really think that you aren't losing because you aren't eating enough?
                        I was being told this, but ive come to the realisation I was still eating too much for me, so I eat slightly less, I am never starving, and I feel good, and have energy and now the scales are consistently moving down more than they were.

                        Are you always hungry currently?
                        What is a typical day of food for you now? And how much weight do you have to lose?
                        Are you 100% primal, or do you have "treats" in there?
                        I have tracked my calories very carefully for a very long time. I was not accidentally eating more than I thought. To lose I need to maintain 1,000. That never works and once I reach around 1200 I start gaining again. I do eat 100% primal with the exception of a small amount of raw grass-fed dairy. No primal "treats". I don't "need" to lose but would like to lose 10 pounds of fat. My bigger concern is needing to starve myself for the rest of my life just to maintain myself above where I would like to be anyway! I am hungry often, but more importantly I'm obsessed with food all day long. I'm tired of food being my life.

                        Just to report: Today is day 3 of this experiment. I'm up 4 pounds but my waist is the same size. I also feel firmer everywhere. Sort of like my fat is toning up if that makes any sense at all. I would guess this is an inflammation reduction. Also, my energy is up, focus is better, mood is better, stress is down. None of those things previously seemed like problem areas before, yet I still enjoy this further improvement.
                        PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
                          Cats need to have raw meat, grain free dry food may be grain free, but its still cooked.
                          Try raw, like chicken thigh, liver, kangaroo, chunks they need to gnaw through.
                          No need to free feed cats.
                          My youngest eats raw, but he started that way as a kitten. The other two I could not get to transition. I tried for several months.

                          My complaint with not free feeding is that they all follow me around all day begging for food and waking me up in the night for food (which I don't get up to give them). If it was as simple as putting dishes down 1-2 times a day that would be great, but even when accustomed to eating 1-2 times a day they continue begging for it the rest of the time. For the two small cats I gave them unlimited quantity but in limited meal times.
                          PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                          • #43
                            I have to eat about 3,000/day to lose fat/weight. If I go lower, nothing happens (except I get hella cranky). If I get into the 4,000/day I start to gain. I had been stagnant for the past year on about 2,000/day. Lost 5lbs in the last 5 weeks and I can start to see my abs again.

                            This is all paleo/primal low carb-ish/high fat on the weekdays, carb refeeds (600g+) on the weekends.

                            *And I'm a guy - I know you asked for women's opinions, but still..............
                            People too weak to follow their own dreams will always try to discourage others.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                              I have tracked my calories very carefully for a very long time. I was not accidentally eating more than I thought. To lose I need to maintain 1,000. That never works and once I reach around 1200 I start gaining again. I do eat 100% primal with the exception of a small amount of raw grass-fed dairy. No primal "treats". I don't "need" to lose but would like to lose 10 pounds of fat. My bigger concern is needing to starve myself for the rest of my life just to maintain myself above where I would like to be anyway! I am hungry often, but more importantly I'm obsessed with food all day long. I'm tired of food being my life.

                              Just to report: Today is day 3 of this experiment. I'm up 4 pounds but my waist is the same size. I also feel firmer everywhere. Sort of like my fat is toning up if that makes any sense at all. I would guess this is an inflammation reduction. Also, my energy is up, focus is better, mood is better, stress is down. None of those things previously seemed like problem areas before, yet I still enjoy this further improvement.
                              Good for you. The weight is almost all water and glycogen and the firmness might just be muscles pumping of from the same. Check out 180degreehealth.com if you have not. He is almost entirely focused on what you are trying to do. A lot of people fly off the handle because he promotes junk food and grains for people in severe need of metabolic recovery but if you get passed that, he has some great advice and the people there are very helpful.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Zach View Post
                                Good for you. The weight is almost all water and glycogen and the firmness might just be muscles pumping of from the same. Check out 180degreehealth.com if you have not. He is almost entirely focused on what you are trying to do. A lot of people fly off the handle because he promotes junk food and grains for people in severe need of metabolic recovery but if you get passed that, he has some great advice and the people there are very helpful.
                                I see your taking spelling lessons from you're mentor Zach.

                                Gee I don't know why the fact that he promotes junk food and grains would bother anybody....................

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