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  • I just want to chime in, I honestly think CICO was dreamed up by Coca-Cola or McDonald's or some other junk food company as a way to convince people that 100 calories of soda is the same as 100 calories of broccoli. It's clearly nonsense. I'm sure most of us here know that, but it's sad how few out in the 'real world' do...

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    • So I read this thread when it begain, and then it got away from me - is there a verdict yet? Has anyone managed to re-regulate their metabolism by eating more?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by lucy1984 View Post
        So I read this thread when it begain, and then it got away from me - is there a verdict yet? Has anyone managed to re-regulate their metabolism by eating more?
        Read below

        Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
        Serenity, I'm currently 12lbs over my normal weight, which happened as a result of a severe relapse into an ED with the transition to Primal eating. I realised that restriction is an absolute disaster for me. So no - no more rules, no more restricting.

        Being free to eat as much and whenever I want has resulted in me eating smaller meals more frequently. I've never done that before, but it seems to be what my body likes. I'm also naturally cycling calories. Many people believe is a great way to drop weight.

        With this experience I have gained the belief that if you nourish your body really well everything balances out. You body wants to be healthy and lean: loving yourself, trusting your body, and eating with the rhythms of your appetite will get you there. Sometimes that requires overeating in order to heal.

        Now I'm off to play my guitar around the camp fire and hug a few trees...
        Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
        Hey everyone,

        Well, I came to the end of four weeks of "eating a ton" and it felt like the right time to stop. I thought you might be interested to hear my final stats...

        Fad Duration:
        17th March - 12th April => 27 Days

        Calories consumed:
        Total: 83784 cals. On average, 3103.1 cals per day.

        Exercise:
        During this period I probably walked for an hour a day and did yoga for 45 mins a day. But there was a good 10 days when I did nothing.

        Weight:
        I only weighed myself a few times throughout the process: at the start, mid way, and at the end. Unfortunately the mid way weigh ins were on a different set of scales, but the start and end scales were the same.

        Starting weight: 60.5 Kgs (133 lbs)
        Mid weight: 64 kgs (141 lbs)
        End weight: 61.5 Kgs (135.2lbs....!)

        I couldn't believe it when I stepped on the scales on the morning of April the 13th and saw that from start to end, I only gained 2.2lbs. It didn't seem possible.

        Change in my measurements:
        Thighs and waist: No change
        Lower thighs: lost a little
        Hips: gained half an inch
        Chest: gained a full inch (yay!)
        Stomach: gained a full inch ()

        There are a few options:

        1) The scales I weighed myself on mid-way were wrong, and my weight didn't change for the duration of the experiment
        2) I lost the weight I gained very rapidly (I suspect this might be it)
        3) I lost muscle and gained fat (I don't think this is the case as I'm stronger than before and have more visible muscle)

        Here's my Calorie Breakdown:
        [ATTACH]11292[/ATTACH]

        As you can see, after a mid-point, my calorie consumption began to decrease. I always ate however much I wanted - just went with the flow of my appetite. After a certain point, this resulted in cycling calories. I only went under 2K cals once.

        Does this mean my metabolism improved? In the past, 2k cals was a huge amount of food to me, and would definitely make me gain. Now I'm anticipating that I'll be losing on 2K cals a day. It will be interesting to keep following this and see what happens. I'm sure some of the CICO people (if they've bothered reading this) will have something to say...

        In addition to the nourishment factor, this experiment has helped me enormously with some of my food hang ups and has taught me that the most important thing in diet is to know and listen to the rhythms of your body.

        Big ups to Paleomom for being a visionary and starting this inspirational N=1!
        From the last page and a half, definately a move in the right direction IMO.
        "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
          Somebody should write a whole book with this as the premise. They could call it "The Primal Blueprint" or something.
          It's true! Reading Mark's book, he's actually quite flexible about a lot of things. He says "Eat when you're hungry, stop when you're not". No mention of eating like a predator. The book allows room for individual wriggle.

          THe only thing I don't agree with is that only highly active people should eat more than 150g carbs. I think once people have weaned themselves off junk food, they should listen to their bodies and eat what they need.

          Originally posted by Omni View Post
          This exactly.
          You still need to do some research and testing to determine if there are any specific areas of nutrition you need to focus on, but the focus is on nutrition and well being of body and mind.

          Another way of looking at it like a body renovation.
          Like a building site when doing a major renovation, you need to have a good supply of building materials and yes things may look a bit messy with all the scaffolding, temporary bracing, big packs of timber and bricks everywhere, but it's the only way you can do it, you can't do it by only supplying one brick per day, eventually as the renovation comes to completion all the excess starts to fall away, the waste is removed and one can begin to admire the beauty of the finished form.

          Congratulations to all.
          Well said. And thank you

          Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
          I just want to chime in, I honestly think CICO was dreamed up by Coca-Cola or McDonald's or some other junk food company as a way to convince people that 100 calories of soda is the same as 100 calories of broccoli. It's clearly nonsense. I'm sure most of us here know that, but it's sad how few out in the 'real world' do...
          You know what we need? A thread about CICO. I'm sure it would set the record straight once-and-for-all
          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

          - Ray Peat

          Comment


          • Today was my weekly weigh in and I'm down another .6 which gives me an average loss of 1/2 pound a week. I'm eating around twice as many calories as I used to. I've stopped pushing food like I did in the beginning but I still eat when I'm hungry and I don't stop until satisfied. Very little physical activity has taken place.

            My temperature is up. I'm in the cold half of the month and my morning temps are 98.4 most days. During the warmer half my temp was regularly 98.6-99 with only a few days that went below that.

            I think I would still be gaining if I was still pushing the food but by backing off as my hunger decreased, I feel like I'm in a balanced place of eating as much as my body asks for and now starting to finally lose a few pounds. I don't have cravings, I don't binge. My energy has been down for a good portion of this but I feel like it has a lot to do with my hydration level.
            I've been drinking more and trying to keep my body warm during the day to keep my daytime temp up and that seems to be increasing my absorption of water and my energy seems to be going back up again.

            If my energy keeps coming back up and my weight keeps slipping down I'll consider this a very successful experiment that I would recommend to others. It is a wonderful thing to be able to eat a normal amount of food!
            PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

            Comment


            • Great results, PaleoMom! I think you guys are really on to something. I'm going to keep going too and see what happens. Now that I haven't been counting and restricting for a while, I can't really imagine going back to it.

              My journal

              Comment


              • I may as well check in also...

                It's been a weird week for me. My weigh in yesterday showed the same as it was last week, which was up a couple pounds for period water retention. My period is draaaaaagging on this month - it's been getting longer each month since I stopped my BC at the end of Jan to try and troubleshoot other issues I'm having. Looking forward to getting back on it because a heavy five days with three days of spotting on either end is bullshine.

                My appetite's been up and down, but mostly I find I'm just eating when I feel actual hunger and eating until I'm full which sometimes is a lot, sometimes not. Some days I find myself grabbing a snack between meals here and there, some days not.

                My energy's been up and down, too...the first three days of my period (actual flow, not just spotting), I swear I was almost dead. Zero energy. No colour in my face, dark undereye circles. And no opportunity to just ride the couch, either, which I know didn't help things. The past few days have been better, though. My sleep is better from the week before last, although I'm still waking up several times a night, but not having any trouble falling back asleep.

                My temps cratered again after my period started - it's been 97.3 the last four mornings (left side of my mouth is still lower, every single time).

                My digestion has been a total disaster. I haven't had a solid BM in over a week and I'm in there up to half a dozen times a day. The odor is horrifying. I've been gassy and my guts are almost constantly in turmoil, rumbling and gurgling. Not sure what the deal is since my eating hasn't changed much (other than for the better from the first week or two I started on this when I went a little nuts with easter chocolate...but as with Matt Stone's junk protocol, I got it out of my system).

                I've noticed a lot more hair loss in the last two weeks (again, seems to cycle with me, happens every few months) and my nails have gone to shit, all having broken off again this week. Biotin supplements haven't helped much in this regard. I did notice the thread someone started yesterday or so about low ferritin levels and hair shedding, and this is probably the case with me - my last bloodwork showed my level was 16 (normal range is 18-200?) so I'm working on bringing that back up again. Oh, the joys of having bisected guts and absorption issues...*sigh*.

                I am still thinking more and more that all the issues I've got are thyroid related, regardless of what my docs say my blood test results show (normal across the board). I came across some information today about how hypothyroid issues can cause water retention as a result of metabolism downregulation - and since I've been struggling to find answers to my crazy water retention, this is just another point to my case with my doctors. I have an appointment this Friday with my internal medicine specialist to follow up on all the other tests, etc, he sent me for and if he has no other suggestions or recommendations I'm going to request he send me to an endocrinologist. Failing that, I have located a naturopath near me that specializes in thyroid conditions (even if found her through a rather hokey-sounding, "You have this, let me sell you this to fix it" kind of website) and will go see her. Everything I'm dealing with right now points to thyroid dysfunction and I'm at the point where I'm convinced it's going to take more than diet to fix it.

                I'm really happy to hear that things are working out for the rest of you and I have no intention of switching things up right now because I'm feeling good overall. Frustrated at times, but whatever...this too shall pass. I feel like I'm closer to having some answers to issues that have been plaguing me for some time and I'm confident that I'm doing the right thing by giving my body what it needs, even if it doesn't realize it can stop freaking out and packing on the fat because I'll continue to do so, ha.

                Comment


                • Lemontwist, have you considered that there's something in your diet that doesn't agree with you, and since you've upped the quantities you may be getting too much of it? Can you give us a breakdown of your foods? It doesn't sound like you should be suffering that much...

                  Though saying that, my nails did go to shit since starting this and they're just getting better now. Never had broken nails in my life before this experiment!
                  "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                  In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                  - Ray Peat

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                    Lemontwist, have you considered that there's something in your diet that doesn't agree with you, and since you've upped the quantities you may be getting too much of it? Can you give us a breakdown of your foods? It doesn't sound like you should be suffering that much...
                    I have thought about that...the only thing I can think might be an issue is dairy. After having low-fat crap dairy as a giant part of my diet a couple years ago, I cut it out pretty much entirely when I went primal (my mister is allergic, so it was pretty easy not to have around since I don't cook with it or anything anyway). I started adding half and half to my morning coffees (2T each cup, 1/4c total a day) when I started eating more...and within a couple of days I noticed that each morning I'd have gross, thick mucous in the back of my throat. Stopped the cream (back to coconut cream instead, so freaking delicious), mucous went away. That said, I still have a small block of hard, aged cheese in the fridge that I use a small bit of a couple times a week, though it doesn't have the same mucous effect. The only extra dairy I've had in the past couple of weeks was a few of those little 125ml containers of Haagen Dasz (not all at once, ha!) and I had a small portion of gelato on Friday night. The thought occurred to me that it may be the cause, so I'm holding off all dairy in the meantime, but I don't see how 1/2c. of gelato on Friday night had me on the toilet three times within an hour at 10pm last night.

                    One thing I thought of is that I haven't been into eating much veg the last couple of weeks...I still have some, but not nearly as much (no BAS for lunch most days of the week, only a small side with dinner, etc) and that may be the difference. Doesn't mean I want to start eating more veggies, though...just not what my body wants right now.

                    Breakdown of foods -
                    Breakfast - three eggs plus some whites scrambled in 1tsp coconut oil with garlic powder, salt, green onions; a few ounces of leftover meat (chicken, beef, whatever's in the fridge), 1/2 an avocado. This hasn't changed in a loooong time.
                    Lunch - mostly meat, yesterday it was about 8 ounces leftover variety bbq stuff sans sauce - smoked chicken, brisket, pulled pork, rib ends, and about 1/2c of sauteed mixed veg - broccoli, spinach, red peppers, sugar snap peas - with 1tsp butter.
                    Dinner - last night was about 1 1/2c ground beef fried up with some onion, red pepper, garlic, fish sauce, sriracha, lime juice and ginger. Didn't feel like anything more.
                    Had an apple mid morning, some carrot sticks and a handful of almonds in the afternoon; in the evening a banana sliced with cinnamon and a splash of almond milk, a square of Lindt 85% and a couple of raw chocolate coconut cookies that I made yesterday. Had my usual 2 cups of coffee with coconut cream, some coconut water on a whim in the afternoon and a tea in the early evening. I take my supps in the morning with 1/2c. organic carrot juice and grab some gulps of water here and there during the day when I feel thirsty.
                    It was a lower carb day than normal...usually somewhere in there there's some potato or squash or something, sometimes some rice.
                    Last edited by lemontwisst; 04-16-2013, 11:57 AM. Reason: Added info

                    Comment


                    • It looks like there's a lot of coconut in your diet now - how much more is that than before?

                      Also looks like a lot of meat - I know people here are meat mad, but if you've upped the quantities a lot it could be too much for your system to take. If you're eating too much pork or poultry you could be overloading your system with O6's.

                      What were you calories before, and what are they now?

                      Doesn't sound like it's the dairy - the amount is pretty negligible.
                      Last edited by YogaBare; 04-16-2013, 12:11 PM.
                      "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                      In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                      - Ray Peat

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                        It looks like there's a lot of coconut in your diet now - how much more is that than before?

                        Also looks like a lot of meat - I know people here are meat mad, but if you've upped the quantities a lot it could be too much for your system to take. If you're eating too much pork or poultry you could be overloading your system with O6's.

                        What were you calories before, and what are they now?

                        Doesn't sound like it's the dairy - the amount is pretty negligible.
                        I've always included a fair amount of coconut in my diet since eating primally - that example is no more than a normal day's intake other than the coconut water. I find it's an easy way to get some fat in my diet that doesn't go straight through me like most other forms do (I have reduced fat absorption through my gut due to gastric bypass surgery).

                        I don't think I'm eating a ton more meat than I normally do...maybe a few more ounces a day, but my meals have been very protein-focused for years. I try to keep a good balance of pork, poultry and beef, though lately it's been a little heavier on the beef - trying to get those iron levels up! Not a lot of fish, but I'm a born-and-bred prairie girl...I like seafood (loooove sushi) but it's never been a solid part of my diet and, frankly, I don't feel I digest it all that well.

                        I have never tracked my calories. I am hung up enough on what to eat and when and all that crap that I refuse to add another element to focus on. Just sifting through all the info on this forum - eat more fat, try a leptin reset, potato hacks, ketosis, etc, etc - is enough to make me go nuts. I can't do it. Maybe it's to my detriment, but I'm trying to cultivate a better relationship with food, not give myself something else to be neurotic and anxious about.

                        Today seems better so far as the digestion goes, so I'll just keep the crap to a minimum, eat a little more fibrous stuff today (had a potato for lunch) and see what pans out.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                          CICO? Hmmm
                          Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                          It's true! Reading Mark's book, he's actually quite flexible about a lot of things. He says "Eat when you're hungry, stop when you're not". No mention of eating like a predator. The book allows room for individual wriggle.

                          THe only thing I don't agree with is that only highly active people should eat more than 150g carbs. I think once people have weaned themselves off junk food, they should listen to their bodies and eat what they need.



                          Well said. And thank you



                          You know what we need? A thread about CICO. I'm sure it would set the record straight once-and-for-all
                          Yes, my experience sounds a lot like CICO. But here's where it differs from straight CICO.

                          - When I eat as much as I can of simple primal foods I do not gain weight. I often overeat and I still don't gain weight. I also seem better able to adhere to an "eat when you are hungry and stop when you are full" way of living.

                          - When I add stuff like chocolate or wine, it seems to interfere with satiety. I will eat/drink it whether I want more or not. If I eat it instead of real food, then I am not satisfied at all. I lose the "Eat when you are hungry, stop when you are full" capability you are supposed to have on a primal diet.

                          - Since I did not count calories (or carbs) either way, I have no idea of knowing whether my total calories were the same or not. But I do find it interesting when women say they ate such-and-such and the next day gained 6lbs so they can never eat such-and-such again. My experience is that it takes about 2-3 weeks to see any weight change from anything I do.
                          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post

                            - When I add stuff like chocolate or wine, it seems to interfere with satiety. I will eat/drink it whether I want more or not. If I eat it instead of real food, then I am not satisfied at all. I lose the "Eat when you are hungry, stop when you are full" capability you are supposed to have on a primal diet.
                            Man, I don't think I could ever give up chocolate and wine completely. The chocolate is more likely to go than the wine. I wonder if it's the chocolate or the sugar in the chocolate that does this to you? I recently started eating unsweetened chocolate (100% cacao). It's bitter but still tastes like chocolate. I find that it's not as addictive as the sweetened stuff, and if you melt a square in a baked sweet potato--mmmm, dessert.

                            I think an overnight 6-lb weight gain (entirely possible, in my experience) is going to be 100% water weight + weight of the food you ate. I think I can easily eat 2 pounds of food in one sitting.

                            My journal

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                              Today was my weekly weigh in and I'm down another .6 which gives me an average loss of 1/2 pound a week. I'm eating around twice as many calories as I used to. I've stopped pushing food like I did in the beginning but I still eat when I'm hungry and I don't stop until satisfied. Very little physical activity has taken place.

                              My temperature is up. I'm in the cold half of the month and my morning temps are 98.4 most days. During the warmer half my temp was regularly 98.6-99 with only a few days that went below that.

                              I think I would still be gaining if I was still pushing the food but by backing off as my hunger decreased, I feel like I'm in a balanced place of eating as much as my body asks for and now starting to finally lose a few pounds. I don't have cravings, I don't binge. My energy has been down for a good portion of this but I feel like it has a lot to do with my hydration level.
                              I've been drinking more and trying to keep my body warm during the day to keep my daytime temp up and that seems to be increasing my absorption of water and my energy seems to be going back up again.

                              If my energy keeps coming back up and my weight keeps slipping down I'll consider this a very successful experiment that I would recommend to others. It is a wonderful thing to be able to eat a normal amount of food!
                              Great stuff,
                              Glad there were some people willing to go there, the whole Paleo - calorie counting thing seemed to be completely contradictory in my eyes, both for men and women, I am firmly convinced that our bodies are quite capable of regulating themselves, provided we don't push the crap in and that recovering health is a slow process that requires long term nourishing of the body.

                              Whjat I have seen with my partners process is there seems to be a fairly regular reset/reallignement as her body heals, she goes fine for a while, everything just ticks along then there is a minor wobble as her body adjusts, often her period will go short or long, but she stabilises again at a higher level, with improved symptoms. The interesting thing is she has now passed her old self and is in uncharted territory so to speak, literally in the never felt better place, yet somehow she keeps hitting new highs, these are all subtle changes, but significant. I had a similar situation when I started as I came from a place of good health, or so I thought, then found I could actually be better, now I wonder how sick I really was and didn't know it, so look forward to more coming changes to really get to know the real me.

                              It seems a gradual, but stepped process, I imagine all the organs, liver, gut, brain, heart, kidneys etc are affected and as each one clears it's backlog, there is a sudden jump/wobble as it assumes normal function and other organs then need to readjust to the new environment. So once thyroid resumes function, then adrenals step back, but now they will need time to heal before they return to normal and I think this process continues throughout the body and fat stores are appropriately adjusted as well, from the literature it appears that Leptin may well be one of the last things to correct once everything else is sorted.

                              The other thing I'd like to mention is body image issues, we need to be open to loving our true selves, that may mean being healthy weight with a few curves and cuddles and the pursuit of Abs may not be the healthiest direction, function is far more important, it may well be that there is 2-3lbs difference between anxiety and peace, I'd rather carry the extra bit for the tranquility it provides.
                              "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

                              Comment


                              • Omni, I'm glad your partner is doing well. She must feel amazing to be in such positive new territory! You are right that it is good to notice the adjustment phases in healing. It is important to remember this when things are suddenly going terrible and we don't know why.

                                Lemontwist, I'm sorry to hear of your trouble areas. I'm wondering if you've ever dried HCl and digestive enzymes to help your digestion. Upping food intake can use more stomach acid and enzymes than you are currently producing, so sometimes supplementing those for a short while can help while your body adjusts to your new food intake. That's all I have to offer, thinking of you though and hoping it smooths out soon
                                PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                                Comment

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