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  • I'm still reading through this thread and it's very interesting. I started primal over two years ago and lost 30 lbs very slowly. For months and months I wouldn't lose and went through periods were I had lots of primal cheats. I was so scared when I first started because I promised myself I'd never go on another diet because they all fail and they where mentally damaging and the wrong way to eat and too restrictive, blah, blah, blah. Anyways, I told myself I'd never count calories and try to learn to listen to my body and learn how to recognize real hunger. I did, however, put my diet into fit day a few times to see where my calories and nutrients stood and my calories were always above 2,000. I'm sure they vary, but I'm sure that on most days they are at or above 2,000 and no matter how many times I have read threads about watching calories or lowering them there's no way I would ever do that. I will never go low calorie again to lose weight unless my natural hunger cues allow it without me being aware of it. Not only is it hard to nourish, but I think it will always backfire. I eat a lot and never gain eating this way even if the weight loss is slow or not happening I'd rather not starve my body. Higher calorie is the way to go even if you gain at first. You'll be able to do this forever and not obsess or count anything. Your body will adjust and then start to shed what fat it doesn't need due to the nourishment you provide it. I think it takes a lot longer then we think to heal and nourish a malnourished body.

    Way to go, Paleo Mom! I think you are makng a really good choice for your long-term health and mental wellness!!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
      Gosh, this is like reading my own story almost. Used exercise to lose weight because I can't imagine living on such low calories. LC/Primal gave me the weight loss I could no longer attain in my 40s despite lots of exercise. But you know what? I don't have to go low carb anymore so long as it's all primal stuff. I suppose it doesn't add up to much, but it's potatoes and sweet potatoes and bananas and even sometimes dates and (yes, really) sugar and honey.



      I swear what Molly looks like is pretty close to what I look like. Sorta soft, maybe a little heavier than what you'd have to be to sport "abs" and be "enviable". But damn, I swear to you, if you have not tried it, basing your love of your own body on what it can DO vs. what it WEIGHS is so awesome. I go in there to do my lifting and if I go in scared to death and ready to fail and then I succeed I actually will say "Hell YEAH!" or something out loud. I don't care who is listening. Then I'll go and brag on my journal. Oh yeah, yet another PR. I benched 75lbs today. How many women can do that?? My success will give me a spring in my step all day while I'm eating enormous chicken breasts and steaks with real potatoes and not caring one bit if it's lady-like to eat such a big portion.

      Having a real measure of success feels great and having a body that can do stuff is liberating in a way that just being a feminist doesn't quite do (sorry, I'm old enough that the word feminist has a good connotation). Real physical change -> real inner transformation.
      You're awesome, sbhikes, and I always feel like we're on the same page at the same time.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by healthy11 View Post
        I'm still reading through this thread and it's very interesting. I started primal over two years ago and lost 30 lbs very slowly. For months and months I wouldn't lose and went through periods were I had lots of primal cheats. I was so scared when I first started because I promised myself I'd never go on another diet because they all fail and they where mentally damaging and the wrong way to eat and too restrictive, blah, blah, blah. Anyways, I told myself I'd never count calories and try to learn to listen to my body and learn how to recognize real hunger. I did, however, put my diet into fit day a few times to see where my calories and nutrients stood and my calories were always above 2,000. I'm sure they vary, but I'm sure that on most days they are at or above 2,000 and no matter how many times I have read threads about watching calories or lowering them there's no way I would ever do that. I will never go low calorie again to lose weight unless my natural hunger cues allow it without me being aware of it. Not only is it hard to nourish, but I think it will always backfire. I eat a lot and never gain eating this way even if the weight loss is slow or not happening I'd rather not starve my body. Higher calorie is the way to go even if you gain at first. You'll be able to do this forever and not obsess or count anything. Your body will adjust and then start to shed what fat it doesn't need due to the nourishment you provide it. I think it takes a lot longer then we think to heal and nourish a malnourished body.

        Way to go, Paleo Mom! I think you are makng a really good choice for your long-term health and mental wellness!!
        Good for you! More power to you both!
        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

        - Ray Peat

        Comment


        • Something's changing for me. For two out of the last three nights I've had night sweats. Maybe my body is burning off the excess calories thermogenically?

          Yesterday I actually counted my calories. I'm not going to do it again as it always ends badly for me, but I just wanted to be sure how much I was eating. And for the purpose of this experiment, I thought it would be helpful.

          CALS F C P

          Coconut oil 2 tablespoon 234 27 0 0
          Banana, raw 5 large 605 2 155 7
          Rice, white, cooked,1 cup, cooked 203 0 44 4
          Olive oil 2 tablespoon 239 27 0 0
          Lamb broth, 3 cup 94 1 9 14
          Beets, cooked 250 grams 154 6 24 4
          Sugar, raw 4 teaspoon 62 0 16 0
          White potato 3 small 388 9 73 6
          Sea food mix (Mussels, prawns, calamari)
          500 grams 430 11 18 60
          Coconut water, canned, 2 can 263 1 60 5
          Lamb, shoulder chop, lean only eaten
          2 large (8 oz, with bone, raw) 421 22 0 51

          Sorry it's so illegible! It won't let me use spacings to separate the figures.

          CALORIE BALANCE

          Totals 3094 CALS 107.0 FAT 399.4 CARBS 151.8 PROTEIN

          I actually ate more than that cos' I forgot to include all the milk in my tea and coffee, and I can't remember how many potatoes I ate (it was at least three). Plus I ate more olive oil, and an orange. I'm also sure my bone broth is fattier than what's estimated. I was tired yesterday, so the only exercise I did was house cleaning (about 90 mins), and walking (about an hour).

          Result: No change in measurement today. My hips are currently 1.5 inches wider than when I was 18-19% bf, eating 1,200 cals per day. They are 2 inches wider than when I was borderline anorexic. This is kind of a no-brainer...
          Last edited by YogaBare; 03-14-2013, 02:03 AM.
          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

          - Ray Peat

          Comment


          • i heat up at night if i eat properly. i can never sleep with clothes on and i can get out of bed easily in the winter as i am not freezing my ass off when i wake up.

            Comment


            • paleomom, aon of the key aspects of this re-feeding technique is a higher starchy carb intake. Where are your starchy carbs?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                Not sure what to think of this french study. They looked at dietary intakes and charted this along with BMI, they certainly found BMI to go up with caloric intake. Normal weight women my age were eating around 1600-1700 calories.

                http://gremaq.univ-tlse1.fr/perso/dubois/bdo1.pdf

                16-1700 cals is what I would eat if I were inactive, as a 30 year old female at 5'5".

                This study didn't actually take account of the food people were eating in any more depth than just basic macronutrients. It doesn't say what type of carbohydrates, fats and proteins people were eating. Were the obese and overweight individuals getting more of their carbohydrates from sugar, fast food, for example, and fat from things like baked goods, pastries, chocolate etc, ie were they eating food that would not be satiating and would encourage overeating (as we discuss about those types of foods a lot on here). What proportion of the overweight and obese people's intake came from higher calorie drinks? Sugar intake didn't appear to be discussed, or alcohol intake either.

                Comment


                • Yogabare, wow your food list is impressive as well! Both you and Paleomom are eating much better then me. Your macro ratios are perfect as far as im concerned. Your sweating if it accompanied by hot extremities is a great sign of your metabolism heating up, if you are getting chilled sweats then its adrenalin and something needs to be changed. Is it at night only? If so try eating less before bed. Big heavy meals right before sleep can give people problems like restless legs, heavy rapid heartbeat and night sweats.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Zach View Post
                    Yogabare, wow your food list is impressive as well! Both you and Paleomom are eating much better then me. Your macro ratios are perfect as far as im concerned. Your sweating if it accompanied by hot extremities is a great sign of your metabolism heating up, if you are getting chilled sweats then its adrenalin and something needs to be changed. Is it at night only? If so try eating less before bed. Big heavy meals right before sleep can give people problems like restless legs, heavy rapid heartbeat and night sweats.
                    Thanks for the info Zach My feet were hot two nights ago, not sure about last night. But this morning I was getting chilled sweats and restless leg syndrome... I've actually gotten chilled sweats for my whole life, but the restless leg is unusual. The only other time I got that was when I was VLC. SO it sounds like adrenaline... maybe it's too many carbs? (too many bananas?!) I know the symptoms of a high carb diet can be the same as a low carb diet.
                    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                    - Ray Peat

                    Comment


                    • YogaBare,
                      I have been very warm at night since this began. I did have to stop eating before bed, like Zach said, it was bringing on rapid heartbeat and gave me restless sleep and I was even hotter. This is saying a lot as my bedroom is usually around 55 degrees at night. I don't really sweat but I have to sleep without blankets for awhile or just a sheet. It does seem to come and go through the night though and I'll get back to normal after an hour or so.

                      I had this same experience when I used to do cold baths and I was eating very little back then but I think it was stimulating the metabolism as well. Can't imagine what it would be like to eat like this and do the cold baths. I'm not in the mood to try right now but somebody should
                      PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by NDF View Post
                        paleomom, aon of the key aspects of this re-feeding technique is a higher starchy carb intake. Where are your starchy carbs?
                        Cronometer says my average carbs over the last week were 312, with 40g fructose from fruit and honey, the rest of the carbs would be from yams and white potato mostly with a small amount from other veggies.
                        PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by PaleoPanda View Post
                          16-1700 cals is what I would eat if I were inactive, as a 30 year old female at 5'5".

                          This study didn't actually take account of the food people were eating in any more depth than just basic macronutrients. It doesn't say what type of carbohydrates, fats and proteins people were eating. Were the obese and overweight individuals getting more of their carbohydrates from sugar, fast food, for example, and fat from things like baked goods, pastries, chocolate etc, ie were they eating food that would not be satiating and would encourage overeating (as we discuss about those types of foods a lot on here). What proportion of the overweight and obese people's intake came from higher calorie drinks? Sugar intake didn't appear to be discussed, or alcohol intake either.
                          You are right that there weren't good details on what they ate, some days I just start panicking that I'm doing something that makes no sense. I'm sitting here weighing more that ever and it can be hard to remind myself of what I'm trying to do and what the end result might be. Ignore, moving on...
                          PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                            Maybe it's that when I eat all this gorgeous food to satiation point, I'm giving my body the signal that I love and respect it which makes me feel free, and reduces stress. I usually suffer from insomnia, so the deep sleep is amazing.
                            This thread is moving fast! I think you are on to something, YogaBare.

                            So for months now I have been pretty much ensuring that every meal I eat includes a large serving of lean meat and either ample vegetables or potatoes or both, usually without added fat except that needed for cooking or whatever is in the meat/nuts/avocados that I eat.

                            Between Christmas, my birthday and Valentine's day I had been swimming in chocolate. I also normally drink a lot of wine. A few weeks ago I decided no more chocolate or wine.

                            a) My waist measurement has decreased about an inch
                            b) I really can't eat nearly as much quantity of food as I could before
                            c) I've kind of sort of lost interest in food, especially treat-like things

                            It's kind of like the potato diet with meat and vegetables added, or maybe I'm just finding out that strict paleo actually works.

                            Also, I hurt myself so I've been trying to do lighter weights, no sprinting, but lots of squats.
                            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                              YogaBare,
                              I have been very warm at night since this began. I did have to stop eating before bed, like Zach said, it was bringing on rapid heartbeat and gave me restless sleep and I was even hotter. This is saying a lot as my bedroom is usually around 55 degrees at night. I don't really sweat but I have to sleep without blankets for awhile or just a sheet. It does seem to come and go through the night though and I'll get back to normal after an hour or so.

                              I had this same experience when I used to do cold baths and I was eating very little back then but I think it was stimulating the metabolism as well. Can't imagine what it would be like to eat like this and do the cold baths. I'm not in the mood to try right now but somebody should
                              I actually rarely eat before bed... Had my orange at prob 8.30pm and that was the end of my eating. I'm actually a really bad sleeper anyway, but since doing this I've been having really vivid dreams, and sleeping quite deeply. Getting 7-8 hours consistently! After 8 years of chronic sleep deprivation, this is amazing.

                              Btw, I think Bestbetter did the increase in cals combined with the cold baths!
                              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                              - Ray Peat

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                                You are right that there weren't good details on what they ate, some days I just start panicking that I'm doing something that makes no sense. I'm sitting here weighing more that ever and it can be hard to remind myself of what I'm trying to do and what the end result might be. Ignore, moving on...
                                Keep the faith. Even if we're all wrong, take consolation in the fact that:

                                1) The weight will come off pretty quickly if we decide to start cutting again. Both times since November when I did that I literally shed it.
                                2) As I said before, we can always go back to yo-yo dieting
                                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                                - Ray Peat

                                Comment

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