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  • I would definitely up the fruit intake and is it possible to get some dairy and eggs in there? That is certainly a ton of fat you are eating, in mu opinion way to much PUFA, i would lower the nut intake and add in a bigger variety of fruit, also coconut. Basically more sugar and saturated fat, less unsaturated fat. Also im sure you do but use salt liberally.

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    • Originally posted by Zach View Post
      What does a day in your current diet look? Hows your stress and sleep?
      Stress levels are high currently... Divorce can do that to you. haha.
      Sleep has been pretty bad. Last week could NOT sleep, no matter how hard I tried... I would just lie there. I figured this had to do with me hiking too much (though it was only an hour a day, 5 days a week...), so I stopped for a few days. Sleep returned. I get about 6 hours a night (have a 10 month old daughter).
      ‎"I've heard tell that what you imagine sometimes comes true " - Roald Dahl

      “Keep making things and treating people well.”- Jason Gregory

      "Don’t try to be different. Just be good. To be good is different enough."- Arthur Freed


      5'6"
      24 year old female
      Current: Always between 115 and 119.
      Goal: Get ripped.
      My Journal

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      • Originally posted by Zach View Post
        I would definitely up the fruit intake and is it possible to get some dairy and eggs in there? That is certainly a ton of fat you are eating, in mu opinion way to much PUFA, i would lower the nut intake and add in a bigger variety of fruit, also coconut. Basically more sugar and saturated fat, less unsaturated fat. Also im sure you do but use salt liberally.
        Allergic to eggs, but i do mix them in with patties, meatballs, etc. Dairy I am allergic to- badly- but eat on weekends when/if I cheat at all.
        Will definitely add in more coconut oil. I was thinking about this anyways, and just ordered a gallon of it from my favourite brand/company. Will try and add in more fruit... but it's expensive.

        Add in salt? Will do.

        Lowering nut intake... I guess if I replace most of the cals with coconut oil, that will be fine.

        Making coconut cream tomorrow...

        Thank you btw, for taking such an interest in this. If I can gain back some weight, I'd be very very happy! Thank you.
        ‎"I've heard tell that what you imagine sometimes comes true " - Roald Dahl

        “Keep making things and treating people well.”- Jason Gregory

        "Don’t try to be different. Just be good. To be good is different enough."- Arthur Freed


        5'6"
        24 year old female
        Current: Always between 115 and 119.
        Goal: Get ripped.
        My Journal

        Comment


        • Originally posted by amber_maiden View Post
          In answer to Omni:

          Have you missed periods before going paleo?: Years ago... 6 years ago about, when I was a raw vegan. My weight dropped veyr low on that diet, and I got my period back when I became only a vegan and dropped the raw- and gained the weight back. It still took several months for my period to come back then, however. Still kept it when I went gluten-free vegan.

          Are there any other long term symptoms in your past, anxiety, depression, skin conditions, autoimmune?: I have acne on my jawline, that I can't get rid of... or rather, small bumps. I get stressed out easily. That's about it....
          So periods and stools have been fairly consistant, that still doesn't rule out merely changes in the body.

          You seemed to indicate you were ok when being gluten free Vegan, why the switch to Paleo?

          The stressed and acne is an indicator of ongoing issues, though you've probably had that for a while and the stress in particular may be an indicator of not being able to gain weight, and in particular the belly fat when you up your carbs. Sometimes that belly fat is an indicator of high cortisol, so it seems your issue may come back to the stress, whenever you gain it's on the belly so you cut back to avoid it.

          Your Vegan times are relatively recent and if this caused or aggravated some underlying conditions, then it may take time to correct, I personally a firm believer that even most asymptomatic individuals are likely sick, they just aren't sick enough for a diagnosis, this was my situation, and to heal a lifetime of being partly sick will take a while.

          With my partner, we are now into year 7 and she is approaching remission according to all her medical numbers, but in our eyes she may still be a good 5 years from healing her body fully.
          "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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          • Originally posted by Omni View Post
            So periods and stools have been fairly consistant, that still doesn't rule out merely changes in the body.

            You seemed to indicate you were ok when being gluten free Vegan, why the switch to Paleo?

            The stressed and acne is an indicator of ongoing issues, though you've probably had that for a while and the stress in particular may be an indicator of not being able to gain weight, and in particular the belly fat when you up your carbs. Sometimes that belly fat is an indicator of high cortisol, so it seems your issue may come back to the stress, whenever you gain it's on the belly so you cut back to avoid it.

            Your Vegan times are relatively recent and if this caused or aggravated some underlying conditions, then it may take time to correct, I personally a firm believer that even most asymptomatic individuals are likely sick, they just aren't sick enough for a diagnosis, this was my situation, and to heal a lifetime of being partly sick will take a while.

            With my partner, we are now into year 7 and she is approaching remission according to all her medical numbers, but in our eyes she may still be a good 5 years from healing her body fully.
            I was fine as a vegan, and started eating because I needed a change after 8 years of being vegan. My boyfriend eats meat, so I started eating it. I feel better eating it vs. when I was vegan. I have more energy than before and I put on muscle on very easily- even though I'd train as a vegan and not even look it.

            The acne on the jawline is not a new thing. Been around for the past two years.

            Potatoes seemed to make me gain weight in my stomach, as did rice, when I was still vegan. I'm not 100% sure how I'd react to it now, but I avoid it.
            ‎"I've heard tell that what you imagine sometimes comes true " - Roald Dahl

            “Keep making things and treating people well.”- Jason Gregory

            "Don’t try to be different. Just be good. To be good is different enough."- Arthur Freed


            5'6"
            24 year old female
            Current: Always between 115 and 119.
            Goal: Get ripped.
            My Journal

            Comment


            • What about adding in some cod liver oil? It would balance some of the omega 6 in the nuts and I believe it is a very traditional food to give to women to ensure good fertility (or simply menstrating in your case). I think balancing that ratio might improve the acne as well. I know it makes a big difference for me.
              PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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              • Originally posted by amber_maiden View Post
                Stress levels are high currently... Divorce can do that to you. haha.
                Sleep has been pretty bad. Last week could NOT sleep, no matter how hard I tried... I would just lie there. I figured this had to do with me hiking too much (though it was only an hour a day, 5 days a week...), so I stopped for a few days. Sleep returned. I get about 6 hours a night (have a 10 month old daughter).
                This could be a big part of it. Try to prioritize sleep and anything to relieve stress. Also your diet may be effecting sleep, too much protein and unsaturated fat will cause inflammation and stress, adenalin and cortisol will be elevated and you wont be able to sleep. Do you get up to pee at night or have the urge to pee? Wake up at 3-4am wide awake? Restless legs, painful feet and anything else?

                Originally posted by amber_maiden View Post
                Allergic to eggs, but i do mix them in with patties, meatballs, etc. Dairy I am allergic to- badly- but eat on weekends when/if I cheat at all.
                Will definitely add in more coconut oil. I was thinking about this anyways, and just ordered a gallon of it from my favourite brand/company. Will try and add in more fruit... but it's expensive.

                Add in salt? Will do.

                Lowering nut intake... I guess if I replace most of the cals with coconut oil, that will be fine.

                Making coconut cream tomorrow...

                Thank you btw, for taking such an interest in this. If I can gain back some weight, I'd be very very happy! Thank you.
                What happens when you eat dairy? Do you know if its lactose, casein or whey or just eveything? Coconut oil is great for thyroid issues but it also suppresses hunger and raises metabolism so be aware you might have to eat more to gain weight. Eating whole coconuts is beneficial as well. Try for more tropical fruit, oranges and bananas are cheap.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by amber_maiden View Post
                  Stress levels are high currently... Divorce can do that to you. haha.
                  Sleep has been pretty bad. Last week could NOT sleep, no matter how hard I tried... I would just lie there. I figured this had to do with me hiking too much (though it was only an hour a day, 5 days a week...), so I stopped for a few days. Sleep returned. I get about 6 hours a night (have a 10 month old daughter).
                  I missed this post, Divorce, A sleepless week, sounds like you may well be on the limit, the effects of this may be as extreme as a chronic infection.
                  I think there has been lots of different angles thrown to you and most I think are valid, I don't think you are as haealthy as you may think, I don't think there is a quick fix either.

                  Did the acne outbreak occur with the divorce process?

                  Did a quick search of some acne stuff, likely a hormonal imbalance probably brought on by inflamation, lack of antioxidants, probably because you body was working overtime before this trying to maintain health.
                  Just one of the links I looked at:
                  Research shows inflammation causes acne
                  Not necesarily the definitive article on acne, but just a starter.
                  "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                    I do feel like I'm rebuilding inside. The fatigue I'm experiencing is very much like after a long day of hard physical labor and very much not like when I just had chronic fatigue. Subtle, but different.

                    When you say you did something similar, do you bump up calories by quite a bit? If so did you gain and then have it come off at the same caloric level? I'd love more detail if you are willing
                    I realized about 2 months ago that I wasn't eating anywhere near enough (I was too wrapped up in getting "ripped") my energy levels SUCKED I felt weak me generally sh!tty. So, I said screw it and starting eating to my hunger levels....which were insane. I'm talking about 2500-3000 cals a day for a couple weeks. I got "fuller" and gained a little but of fat but honestly not as much as I expected. My workouts skyrocketed, I PR'd on every lift by at least 10 pounds. Now I'm eating to my hunger levels still, but my hunger has decreased a little bit now that I'm caught up. I have days where I'm around 2500 and days where I'm around 1800..I just go with it. And now I'm getting a bit leaner slowly it seems. So through the whole thing I've gained about 4 pounds...muscle? Fat? Both? I dunno. And it has stayed but I'm looking trimmer. Plus I'm not angrily starving all the time so that's a plus!

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                    • Originally posted by TCates190 View Post
                      I realized about 2 months ago that I wasn't eating anywhere near enough (I was too wrapped up in getting "ripped") my energy levels SUCKED I felt weak me generally sh!tty. So, I said screw it and starting eating to my hunger levels....which were insane. I'm talking about 2500-3000 cals a day for a couple weeks. I got "fuller" and gained a little but of fat but honestly not as much as I expected. My workouts skyrocketed, I PR'd on every lift by at least 10 pounds. Now I'm eating to my hunger levels still, but my hunger has decreased a little bit now that I'm caught up. I have days where I'm around 2500 and days where I'm around 1800..I just go with it. And now I'm getting a bit leaner slowly it seems. So through the whole thing I've gained about 4 pounds...muscle? Fat? Both? I dunno. And it has stayed but I'm looking trimmer. Plus I'm not angrily starving all the time so that's a plus!
                      Yeah... I'm experiencing something similar. The difference in my hips between when I'm starving myself and eating 2500-3000K a day of good food is max two inches (I don't weigh myself). And actually it's probably working out better, cos' I cant sustain it when I starve - i just end up binging on shit food, putting on weight, then being depressed and sedentary. Similarly, when I'm eating this much I actually want to exercise.

                      The more I'm turning this over in my head, the more it makes sense. I'm sick of the yo-yo weight and not being able to eat to my appetite. It's not a way to live. The minimal extra weight is worth it (although I have a strong suspicion that if I keep going with this I'll lose some of it wthout trying. Think it's already happening...)
                      "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                      In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                      - Ray Peat

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                      • I went for a bit of a search looking for the BMI of "Venus De Milo", no success on that front, but did find some interesting stuff.

                        Elsie Scheel, a 24-year-old pronounced the "perfect woman" in 1912, she was 5' 7" and 171 lb's, BMI of 27, lived to 91, never sick.
                        "Perfect Woman" Weighed 171 Pounds | Healthy Living - Yahoo! Shine

                        Then stumbled on the "Obesity Paradox", meta analysis found overweight and slightly obese individuals have a reduced mortality risk.
                        However, being merely overweight (BMI 25-30) was linked to a 6 percent decreased risk of death compared to a normal weight person, while being slightly (grade 1) obese (BMI 30-35) was linked to a 5 percent lower risk.
                        So being correct BMI indicates increased mortality risk.
                        More evidence for "obesity paradox" - Yahoo! News
                        Lively Dust: Weight is a red herring

                        And another pdf file, slide images like powerpoint, discussing similar questions about BMI through history and the "Obesity" Epidemic.
                        http://anthropology.ua.edu/bindon/an...cs/obesity.pdf

                        The whole BMI thing sounds a bit like the cholesterol myth, being normal range indicates higher mortality risk.
                        "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                        • A more detailed breakdown of the obesity paradox and BMI from Chris Kressor.
                          Do fat people live longer?
                          If you’re a metabolically healthy person with a few extrapounds that just won’t budge, current evidence suggests that getting to your “perfect” weight may not increase your lifespan. In fact, if you’re a woman, it may even be counterproductive.. I This casts doubt – at least from a scientific perspective — on our culture’s (pathological?) obsession with skinniness. It also suggests that maintaining adequate lean body mass by eating a nutrient-dense diet and doing regular weight-bearing exercise may be more important than shaving off those final few pounds of fat.
                          So more important to build the actual lean body mass(muscle) than than it is to lose that bit of extra fat so the muscle is becomes visible outwardly
                          and this seems to be the place meny get stuck, once they try to lose the last bit of fat they also start to lose the muscle, but if they let the fat back on it is easier to build the muscle and they feel stronger and can lift more.
                          Last edited by Omni; 03-13-2013, 05:17 AM.
                          "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                          • If you haven't been eating any gluten, then the biopsy is pointless - even if you were celiac, it wouldn't show anything as the gut damage would have healed already, if there was any there before. Blood test for celiac is often unreliable.

                            You could put yourself through a gluten challenge, and have the biopsy, which involves eating gluten for a minimum of 6 weeks, in order to deliberately damage your gut so it shows up. Been there, and it wasn't pleasant, I can tell you. If you're happy Paleo and gluten free, then I'd honestly say don't bother with the biopsy, as what you will have to put yourself through for it would be far far worse than the actual biopsy, if you do have celiac or a gluten allergy or sensitivity. After a period of time off gluten and then reintroducing it, you will be sick as a dog quite quickly if you do have some sort of gluten disorder, and you then have to keep that up for almost two months. Two months of being sick feels like a long time, and then there's the time afterwards for you to heal from it.

                            I had atypical symptoms as well, mainly joint pain, weight gain and constipation (sorry TMI) which doesn't fit the typical picture. I went on several elimination diets to try and determine if I had any food intolerances or allergies, and the most improvement was when I was off gluten, prompting them to give me a celiac test. Blood test was negative initially after a month off gluten, but then I had a positive blood test and biopsy after the gluten challenge, but paid a very high price for it, as the symptoms kicked in far worse than they were before. Took 6 months for me to recover from those 2 months of hell.

                            Biopsy itself - I was horrendously nervous before, but they sedated me to the eyeballs and I don't remember anything about it.

                            You can be gluten-sensitive without being celiac - gluten sensitivity can cause leaky gut, which also causes malabsorption. A biopsy won't pick that up, but it could pick up other signs of absorption problems - as well as celiac, mine showed GERD/acid reflux damage, and going Primal has fixed that. So I'd say have it if you want to rule out general gastric issues, but not solely for a celiac diagnosis.
                            Last edited by PaleoPanda; 03-13-2013, 05:52 AM.

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                            • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                              Yeah... I'm experiencing something similar. The difference in my hips between when I'm starving myself and eating 2500-3000K a day of good food is max two inches (I don't weigh myself). And actually it's probably working out better, cos' I cant sustain it when I starve - i just end up binging on shit food, putting on weight, then being depressed and sedentary. Similarly, when I'm eating this much I actually want to exercise.

                              The more I'm turning this over in my head, the more it makes sense. I'm sick of the yo-yo weight and not being able to eat to my appetite. It's not a way to live. The minimal extra weight is worth it (although I have a strong suspicion that if I keep going with this I'll lose some of it wthout trying. Think it's already happening...)
                              Yep, the more you focus on rehabing your body with sleep, stress management, exercise and lots of nurishing food and easier it will be to lose fat when your body is ready. Like i said earlier, i actually gained fat on a low carb diet intended for fat loss, lost a little when i was stuffing myself more months and now i am leaning out under 10% bf while eating a diet of 60% carbs and lots of not so great foods (french toast, pizza, pancakes).

                              I do think it takes a bit of experimenting to find whats right but it is certainly possible.
                              Last edited by Zach; 03-13-2013, 06:56 AM.

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                              • @ Yogabare - how long have you been doing this now?
                                PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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