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  • Originally posted by Zach View Post
    Glad you were able to read it with an open mind! His stance on junk food may have advantages for some but certainly not necessary. I did the same when i started and now im back to almost all paleo foods, just much different macro ratios.
    So, have you been doing this too? If so, please share your experience in as much detail as you're willing to
    PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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    • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
      So, have you been doing this too? If so, please share your experience in as much detail as you're willing to
      I have followed Matt Stone for many years, and used his RRARF protocal with much success. I ate primal/low carb paleo/carnivore for off and on 3 years before finding him and realizing how messed up i had become. Low temps, subclinical hypo, no libido, severe inflammation, waking up to pee multiple times, insulin resistance. All brought on by a diet of high protein and fat and low carbs.

      I followed the diet perfectly at first. Aggressively refeeding on carbs while limiting protein and unsaturated fats. Eventually i was able to tailor a diet that worked best for me. I was also able to cure all symptoms i mentioned above.

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      • Originally posted by Zach View Post
        I have followed Matt Stone for many years, and used his RRARF protocal with much success. I ate primal/low carb paleo/carnivore for off and on 3 years before finding him and realizing how messed up i had become. Low temps, subclinical hypo, no libido, severe inflammation, waking up to pee multiple times, insulin resistance. All brought on by a diet of high protein and fat and low carbs.

        I followed the diet perfectly at first. Aggressively refeeding on carbs while limiting protein and unsaturated fats. Eventually i was able to tailor a diet that worked best for me. I was also able to cure all symptoms i mentioned above.
        What happened to your weight and about how many calories are you continuing to consume now?
        PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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        • Pre paleo - 180
          Paleo to Matt Stone - 180-220 (while trying to lose weight!)
          Matt stone to my diet - 220-213
          My diet - 213-190 and shrinking

          Calories vary and i dont count but never below 2500. Usually in the 3-4k. On paleo it was 1500-2400 consistently.

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          • I had great fun with this one: Health-calc - Waist to height ratio

            if you play around with the dials from tiny waist to huge, the little profile pictures change too haha
            Natural products super cheap @ iherb: Use discount code SEN850 at http://www.iherb.com/?rcode=sen850 for $10 off first order; free shipping $20+ order in USA

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            • Originally posted by Zach View Post
              Pre paleo - 180
              Paleo to Matt Stone - 180-220 (while trying to lose weight!)
              Matt stone to my diet - 220-213
              My diet - 213-190 and shrinking

              Calories vary and i dont count but never below 2500. Usually in the 3-4k. On paleo it was 1500-2400 consistently.
              Awesome, thanks for sharing!
              PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

              Comment


              • I think I'm more than ready to head down this path, too.

                I started eating VLC/LF in May 2011...it was great to help me lose 40+lbs over six months or so, but I'm pretty sure I seriously dehydrated myself over that time and messed up my metabolism and electrolyte balance in the process. Cut myself some slack through the holidays and gained back about 7-10lbs.
                Around this time last year I found the PB and decided that I needed more fat, more fruit and less neurosis regarding food in my life. There was never any effect on my weight, though my body composition did change for the better, until around August or so when the scale went up 10+lbs in about a week. I figured I'd been giving it a little too hard with the booze over the summer so cut back there, started eating 'cleaner' (lower carb). It didn't occur to me that all that weight was straight water retention until I went to put on my motorcycle gear one day in the middle of August and my pants and boots didn't fit worth a shit. I didn't realize how swollen my legs were since I'd been spending most of the summer in skirts or dresses and flip-flops. Fast forward to October, went on vacation to the Caribbean, and packed on another 15lbs in the first week (the swelling started within an hour of being on the airplane, so it wasn't related to the heat...at least not all of it). Took some prescription diuretics while I was there and got rid of some of it (my feet looked like feet again, as opposed to footballs with toenail-tipped nubs sticking out the ends), and the rest of that 15lbs came off when I got home. But the rest of the initial 10+ has stayed with me, and nothing I've done has budged it. I've been to three doctors (my GP, an internal specialist and a neurologist), had all the bloodwork you can imagine done (all is normal), and an ECG/ultrasound on my heart to rule out heart failure...nothing is amiss. I am off birth control (I wasn't taking synthetic hormones to begin with so I didn't think they were the problem but the internalist asked I drop it to rule it out), not on any medication, I have cut most of my supplements way back to see if they are attributing to it. Like HappyPaleoGirl, I feel gross in my own skin all the goddamn time.
                I *KNOW* something is wrong. I have all the classic hypothyroid symptoms - cold hands and feet, fatigue, waking in the night, dry skin and hair, shitty nails, etc, etc. I am anemic and iron deficient (due to absorption issues with my gut) and they were getting better when I first started with the LC/Primal stuff, but I am back to square one. I am sickly pale looking again, with dark undereye circles, my energy is on the low side of normal even with taking B vitamins and extra B12. But my doctors have assured me I don't have any thyroid issues, at least not by what my bloods show.
                After reading through this and stumbling across Matt Stone's website, I bought his Diet Recovery 2 book the other day and am working through it. PaleoMom, Zach is right, your before and during experiences you've mentioned here read exactly like this book does.
                So I'm with you on this one. I know my metabolism is f*cked. I'm always cold - I picked up a thermometer last night to start tracking it (which will indirectly help with my not being on birth control, god help me). No surprise, my oral temp first thing this morning was 96.8.
                It's game on. I am not even going to be slightly concerned about how much I'm eating for the next little while...I've already been feeling that way the last week or two anyway, I've just been eating and eating. It's now pretty apparent it's my body telling me to fix this shit up before it's too late.
                Thanks for sharing your experience so far, PaleoMom...I'll be sure to keep on top of this thread and maybe weigh in (not intended) with my own findings.
                Last edited by lemontwisst; 03-09-2013, 10:38 AM.

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                • Good luck! PM me if you ever are needing some specific advice.

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                  • Originally posted by Zach View Post
                    Good luck! PM me if you ever are needing some specific advice.
                    Thank you.

                    Totally annoyed now that I didn't pick up either DR2 or Eat For Heat for 99cents when you linked to them...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Peace x View Post
                      Hi Sbhikes

                      Would you mind sharing a typical days diet please?

                      Peace x
                      Typical diet lately:
                      Breakfast:
                      Large boneless skinless chicken breast (or half--we're talking mutant CAFO chickens where 1 side of breast is about a pound)
                      Large sweet/white potato (or half)
                      hot sauce or mustard
                      black coffee

                      Lunch:
                      More chicken (either other half or maybe some Panda express-type teriyaki grilled chicken)
                      More potato (either another whole or the other half from before) or mixed veggies (from the above Panda-express type place)

                      Dinner:
                      Generous piece of meat
                      More potato (usually half, no butter)
                      Vegetables (usually steamed)
                      Now and then instead of such low-fat fare I will make a coconut curry or something instead of the above.

                      Senseless indulgences:
                      Chocolate (usually half of a large Lindt bar), wine (up to 12 ounces), cheese (a couple ounces before dinner), nuts (maybe a handful before dinner), vegan desserts from the health food store (dates and date-based sweets, cashew-based sweets, coconut-based "cheesecake", chia-seed pudding, sometimes two desserts in one sitting.)

                      All of this is large portions. It's fairly low in fat as none is actually added unless needed for cooking. I estimated this to be about 2200 calories give or take. Those calorie calculator websites say I need 1300 calories daily for maintenance and 1200 for slow weight loss of an ounce a year (I guess their software doesn't let the number go lower than 1200).

                      For the past few months I have been lifting 2x a week, sprinting once a week, taking walks daily and hiking once or twice a week. My body is really starting to show visible muscle and I think it's because of the high protein and the lifting and since I have growing strength and hypertrophy this indicates some kind of surplus of something, right?

                      This week as an experiment I removed all the chocolate and wine and was very limited in the other indulgences. I tried to maintain the big meat portions and kept my portions of potatoes higher than normal. I also did 25-rep squats with up to 85lbs almost every day instead of my usual 3 sets of 5 of heavier weight. I felt like some of my pants were looser. So there you go. Eat all the meat, potatoes and veggies as you can and avoid the indulgences, problem potentially solved.

                      I have to admit I sorta feel like crap because my chicken-heavy diet is too low in the good kind of fat. I'm trying to avoid salmon lately because I want my blood not so thin and weepy for an upcoming "procedure". Usually I eat buttloads of salmon, not chicken.
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                      • I'm loving this thread and I'm really curious to hear how you ladies get on. More power to you all! I've been experimenting with Matt Stone and this kind of refeeding a bit but haven't quite gotten it right. I've just ended up cycling calories cos some days I'm not hungry.

                        I might share another time, but for now I just wanted to put a theory out there - I notice that when I eat piles of good food, moving requires - and generates - a lot more energy. I feel heavier so it takes more of an effort to get going, but once I get going my movement is much more powerful and explosive. It feels like I'm burning off much more energy.Just a theory, but maybe this is why eating a lot and eating very little amount to pretty much the same result (provided it's good food).
                        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                        - Ray Peat

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                        • @lemontwisst -
                          Glad to have you, I hope this works for you. Sounds like your temp is pretty low, which can be seen as a good thing since it points to something that is clearly off and gives a lot of reason to feel very hopeful that getting your temp up will result in a lot of great improvements.



                          My weight and measurements are still pretty stable. I find I'm eating more calories almost every day! Yesterday was 4,000. It is amazing how I feel like I'm eating as much as I did when it was 1,200. I was so stuffed the first week and now I don't feel full, just satisfied, with this amount of food, no bloating or digestive discomfort anymore. My energy is still low, most days feel like I'm recovering from a really tough day of physical labor even though I'm not doing anything. My temp is 98.6 with the glass thermometer, I'm anxious to see what it will be after my TOM in a few days, it might drop back to the 97's again. I'm thinking at this point that I'll probably stay at this weight until my body feels recovered, them hopefully it will start going back down.
                          PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                          • HI Sbhikes

                            Thank you for sharing. What are your reasons for favouring low fat?

                            Peace x

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                            • @paleomom

                              Hows your sleep?

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                              • Are you measuring temp at the same time each day?
                                There is about 1F fluctuation daily with minimum being at around 4am and max being around 4-6pm (athletic peak performance time)

                                During a healthy cycle the body temp will rise up to 1F at ovulation and hold in that range for about 10 days, if there is no fertalization then temp will fall back and mensus will begin.

                                And just to confound all the temp stuff we must remember that std temps are the average of a sampled population and there may be a fluctuation of +/- 1F within the range of healthy individuals, so the key is to do this over a period and get a history and also look at other symptoms like heart rate and overall well being to determine what range is right for the individual.

                                One of the things I looked at with my partner was the idea of eating with her cycle, only got a small way into the idea through difficulty of collecting data, but I do think there is something in it.
                                It started with looking to resolve some of her PMS symptoms, from my perspective there were two times outwardly visible, during mensus mainly cramps & discomfort, that was easy for me just put her in bed and give her comfort things etc. The other time I realised was around ovulation where her mood would shift and she would become erratic and irritable, men may see this as the "love/hate banshee" where she is all over you one minute, then in an instant wants to stab you in the eye with a rusty needle.

                                My hypothesis was this was at the end of the folicular period where her body had being doing a lot of work building up the uterus lining and there has been a massive drain on nutrients, particularly in the last three days of this stage where the lining becomes engorged with blood and nutrients and as we know at this time the uterus is in charge and takes priority over the body on nutrient demands and the body then manifests this as PMS symptoms.
                                Solution was to almost literally "give her blood", a good feed of red meat, iron supplements, spinach etc. OJ is good as the Citric acid helps iron absorption and in our case this seemed to help her quite a bit with the mid cycle symptoms.
                                In addition to that the rise in temp means there is simply a need for more calories to maintain the required metabolic rate and feasting should continue while temp is up, once temp falls the body then begins the process of mensus where the body starts to re absorb the bulk of the uterine lining, I think something like 80% is re absorbed, so at this point the body is getting nutrients back, metabolic rate is down and dietary intake can probably drop a little.
                                After this blood supply to the remaining uterine lining is cut off and the shedding process begins with contractions etc and this is where calcium and magnesium, or should I say cheese and chocolate come in to play, one of the things I came to realise here is the question of iron supplements, even though there is the visible discharge of blood, this is not draining from the body as this lining was built up 2 weeks before and now is seperated from the body anyway so supplementing with iron is kind of pointless.

                                It is quite easy to see that if women embark on a strict dietary plan, with a constant measured daily intake, particularly a calorific defecit how this could result in a cascade of symptoms from PPMS through to starvation response and autoimmune disease where women outnumber men about 8:1.

                                IMHO women need a dietary plan that takes into account the changing demands of their cycle, feast mid cycle around ovulation, fast a little through mensus and baseline normal intake in the period leading up to ovulation.

                                There is also a bit of a spiritual angle with the lunar cycle suggesting that:
                                No Moon: Mensus is the time to withdraw and retreat to quiet spaces, reflect on what has passed and tie off the loose ends.
                                New Moon: The new cycle brings new ideas and beginnings, be open to opportunities flowing past.
                                Full Moon:Coming up to ovulation she is in her prime ready for the hunt, ready to take on the world, solid building up of new ideas.
                                Old Moon:Post ovulation is the time to re group, rationalise, bring to fruition and completion begin closing off in preparation for mensus.

                                I'm sure there is some ideal biorythmic cycle for men as well, just not as obvious, but if we can all learn to tune in to our bodies better the signals are probably there, we've just got too much static going on in our lives to hear them clearly.
                                Last edited by Omni; 03-09-2013, 02:12 PM.
                                "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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