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Not able to maintain Low Carb

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Black Timber View Post
    From my point of view, VLC is not very logical. Somewhere along the line, because LC seemed good, VLC just had to be better. While there are those with medical conditions that benefit greatly from VLC, I think that the majority would do great just keeping it LC.
    This. I think that was part of my trouble VLC. I read the bold part. Glazed over on the rest.

    0-50 grams/day – Ketosis and Accelerated Fat Burning
    Acceptable for a day or two of Intermittent Fasting towards aggressive weight loss efforts, provided adequate protein, fat and supplements are consumed otherwise. May be ideal for many diabetics. Not necessarily recommended as a long-term practice for otherwise healthy people due to resultant deprivation of high nutrient value vegetables and fruits.


    I also missed the refeed part. That was another part of my trouble.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ludobear View Post
      On regular days, how many carbs are you taking in? Below 50g a day is incredibly difficult to maintain.
      Maybe for some. I effortlessly maintain below 50g a day when I want to.
      Rebooted Body -- Ancestral Health + Modern Psychology | The Rebooted Body Podcast

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Eddoword View Post
        Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll try the Avocado.

        I totally understand it's not magic. Here's why I'm eating less than 50g carbs:
        I started my Paleo journey at 210 and am trying to lose the last 20 lbs to get to my goal weight of 160 at 5'10". If I eat over 50g carbs daily, I find that it's a slippery slope and tend to overeat them. I might initially be eating 50g-100g, but it creeps up to 200g+ easily.

        Eating the way I've described, I've been eating at maintenance and am at a steady weight for over a year now. Maybe I've nailed down the diet part but need to exercise more?
        Have you considered that your body ravages for carbs on day 4 to 5 every time because you have some degree of addiction? This is a classic sign of extinction bursts.

        I had a very hard time maintaining low carb for the first 30 days because I was a sugar addict. That was over a year and a half ago. I went from 220 to 175 in 6 months back then (I'm now currently approaching 160). I can effortlessly go below 50g per day for as many days as I choose and often will be in Ketosis.

        I'm not VLC all the time, but VLC is quite easy now when I choose to do it. Perhaps you have an underlying addiction (at least to some degree) that you need to address?

        The other part about successful VLC is micronutrient content. Too many VLC people focus solely on macronutrient ratios and don't focus enough on QUALITY food. You WILL feel like crap VLC if you don't pay attention to quality (especially in the realm of fats).
        Last edited by The Rebooted Body; 02-24-2013, 08:56 PM.
        Rebooted Body -- Ancestral Health + Modern Psychology | The Rebooted Body Podcast

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        • #19
          Originally posted by The Rebooted Body View Post
          Maybe for some. I effortlessly maintain below 50g a day when I want to.
          Yes, except for me its everyday.
          If you don't feel great doing it, then you need to change something. It does work fine for plenty of people, but some not so much. You will have to try adding some more in, and see how you go, and work out what level is needed for you.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by The Rebooted Body View Post
            Have you considered that your body ravages for carbs on day 4 to 5 every time because you have some degree of addiction?
            Yeah. The question I would ask of the people having issues: did you make it thru the initial carbo-crash period which happens around day 3-5? Or you did give up every time and thus are still addicted? It sounds like still being addicted to white-carbs, but just spacing them out every three days.

            The crash sucks. I knew it was going to suck and was prepared. Around day three I was knocked out; slept a lot and allowed myself a half an orange at times just to stay functional for work, but never a grain of rice, never a drop of milk, and worked my way off the occassional fruit too. After a week I was mostly converted to this nutrition but still somewhat weak (but never cheating), around two-three weeks I was totally converted and feeling great.

            My woman had the same experience. She was a HUGE carbo-addict (white rice, noodles, sugar, banana, yogurt...these were probably 80% of her calories!). She crashed hard to where she couldn't even function for an entire weekend, then bam Monday was up and running.

            But if you don't make it thru the crash it seems like maybe you're just lengthening the crash period indefinitely?

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            • #21
              Yeah, it's called being human and having a normal functioning metabolism. Try living without solid food or water and I'll bet you'll start craving those as well.
              I swear it sounds like some of you are trying to torture yourselves sometimes. Imagine a Low fat raw foodist forum members saying something like " I haven't eaten any fat for 2 months and I'm craving it so bad but abstaining, what the hell is WRONG with me and why do I feel like this?" It's exactly the same face palming situation.
              Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 02-24-2013, 11:34 PM.

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              • #22
                Not really, because the human body requires fat to function. It doesn't require carbs. Carbohydrate is the only nonessential micronutrient - everything it gives your body (ie: glucose) your body can also get efficiently from fat and protein.

                I've been eating under 30g carb daily for nearly a year now. It's not always easy, the modern world throws a lot of carbs in our faces and nearly all convenience foods are carb traps. But it's very doable with no ill effect. I can also eat a ton of veggies: asparagus, spinach, broccoli, courgette, cauliflower, tomato, mushroom, rhubarb - all whole keeping my carbs at this level. I often have wholly veggie days.

                It sounds to me like you're not getting past the initial glycogen depletion stage. It's very normal to feel rubbish after 5 days. It takes a few weeks to get settled - sometimes a little longer. But for me personally it's the highest energy, fastest weight loss method I've tried.

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                • #23
                  For me, it's not that I feel bad at 3-4 days. I actually feel good! So I don't think for me it's sugar addiction or carb flu. But like OP said, there is an urge that kicks in (for me it's at about 7 days) to find carbs. I look a meat and think "ick".

                  It makes me think that my body craves carbs because I need them. I'm not talking loads of crap, I'm talking a couple of pieces of fruit a day!

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                  • #24
                    Yes you require fats but an extremely miniscule amount to meet your requirements like the amounts you can find in green vegetables. Optimal amount? maybe not but the same goes for carbs, just because you can live on barely any doesn't make it a good idea.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by The Rebooted Body View Post
                      The other part about successful VLC is micronutrient content. Too many VLC people focus solely on macronutrient ratios and don't focus enough on QUALITY food. You WILL feel like crap VLC if you don't pay attention to quality (especially in the realm of fats).
                      This is another part of my trouble with it before. Not enough micronutrient, and not enough calories at the end of the day. Which meant no energy, and for the most just going through the motions.

                      Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                      I also missed the refeed part. That was another part of my trouble.
                      Just my opinion, but if I were to go extended VLC again and my body wanted carbs, I would give it to it. That is the refeed part. I am thinking nothing is wrong, I am thinking it is what is needed. Some with medical issues might need to resist, but I think that is what I should have done, and then VLC would have served me better.

                      Carb Refeeding and Weight Loss | Mark's Daily Apple

                      That article discusses refeeds, but also note close to the beginning, it also says...
                      I initially recommend low carb....
                      that doesnt mean everyone needs to stay VLC. But if I were to do it again, I would have to stay on top of things, like making sure I get enough calories, enough nutrients, because I had absolutely no energy (though some do but I think I didnt probably because calories were just too low) but I would definitely do refeeds especially on a work out day. But I didnt have work out days before, because of low energy. I just missed several key pieces of information that would have made it a better experience for me.

                      The purpose, as I see it, of carb refeeds is the restoration of leptin levels in the dieter. As we know, caloric restriction reduces leptin levels. With lower leptin comes increased hunger and reduced adherence to a diet. Cravings arise. Energy wanes, immunity suffers. The lack of leptin elicits the cascade of hormones that down regulate metabolism and energy expenditure. Your muscles use less energy and become more efficient but weaker and less effective. Menstruation and fertility become issues. Dropping calories even more just makes the problem worse. You need to restore leptin, at least for a bit, to right the path. A carb refeed can help you achieve this.


                      65lbs gone and counting!!

                      Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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                      • #26
                        Eat carbs?

                        I understand what you are saying about carb creep (going from 100 to 200 grams), but just take the inititative to stay on top of that. You know, track your eating. It's a pain in the ass, but if you want that last 20 gone, it might take some control/discipline and minor discomfort. (whether you go VLC or make sure that 100 grams of carbs don't become 200).

                        It sounds like a lot of people effortlessly lose weight, then kind of stall. It happens. Then you do end up needing some restriction and possibly some discomfort. Realize it is temporary. There is no magic. I'm down to my last 25 lbs. It has taken eating 100% clean paleo to budge close to 1 lb a week. It's a slog, LOL. And I work out. It is what it is.

                        http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                        Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
                          Yes you require fats but an extremely miniscule amount to meet your requirements like the amounts you can find in green vegetables. Optimal amount? maybe not but the same goes for carbs, just because you can live on barely any doesn't make it a good idea.
                          I wouldn't go as far as suggesting such a small amount; but yes, after your body has met its requirements from dietary fat, all the rest won't bring any other benefits. All the rest is just so that you get enough calories to maintain your weight - personal preference I'd say; of course, if you have a truly metabolic problem, and not psychosomatic symptoms, which people do have, then that's a different case regarding carbs/fats.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
                            Yes you require fats but an extremely miniscule amount to meet your requirements like the amounts you can find in green vegetables. Optimal amount? maybe not but the same goes for carbs, just because you can live on barely any doesn't make it a good idea.
                            16 ounces broccoli = 1.68 grams of fat

                            I would go insane eating that little fat and end up having a massive binge after visions of chocolate mousse, boursin, and fatty meat. I suppose there are people who can live on what is essentially a fat free diet as you describe. I know I couldn't, and I know diet forums are full of people who are blaming themselves for binging after being on such a diet for not very long.

                            Eating <2 grams of fat is far more imbalanced than eating 30 - 50 grams of carbs each day.
                            Last edited by eKatherine; 02-25-2013, 08:13 AM.

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                            • #29
                              I have this exact experience- I can go low carb for a few days, then my body cries out for carbs and I give in. Interestingly, several times it's the day after the carb re-feed that I lose weight. You'd think I'd balloon up but it's the exact opposite. Since it appears to work for my body, I don't fret about it.
                              High Weight: 225
                              Weight at start of Primal: 189
                              Current Weight: 174
                              Goal Weight: 130

                              Primal Start Date: 11/26/2012

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by moonlights View Post
                                Not really, because the human body requires fat to function. It doesn't require carbs. Carbohydrate is the only nonessential micronutrient - everything it gives your body (ie: glucose) your body can also get efficiently from fat and protein... It sounds to me like you're not getting past the initial glycogen depletion stage.
                                you may not require carbs, but you certainly require glucose, and the body's ability to manufacture it from substrates does not come without added stress. not everyone's body adapts to gluconeogenesis equally well. this is where the word 'optimal' comes into play. it just aint optimal for everyone. what's the point of forcing yourself to deplete all glycogen. there's nothing particularly 'natural' about that.

                                also, everytime someone points out that you don't need to eat carbs to make glucose, i'd like to point out that you don't need to eat a single solitary drop of saturated fat to manufacture all the saturated fat you'll need. no essential carbs, no essential saturated fat, or monounsaturated fat either. essential only applies to the n6 and n3 fats, and denotes the fact that you can't make them. i dare you to eat a low-fat vegan diet and manage to avoid all n6 and n3. it won't happen.

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