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  • #46
    It is not regulated, so can be either.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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    • #47
      I have completely given up dairy. No butter, milk cheese. Nothing. I drink my coffee with chicory and 100% cocao. I have no more mucus and all-day throat clearing. I think I even have less systemic inflammation. That's just my experience. Your mileage may vary.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by meeshar View Post
        Is organic milk UHT in Canada? That's the dealbreaker for me, as I can get hormone-free conventional milk pretty much anywhere (and do occasionally). I found a good article discussing what's wrong with UHT milk: Just Say No To UHT Milk | Food Renegade
        Try to make sure it is the A2 beta Caesin not the A1 which most dairy is, This is another factor which may help explain the geographic distributions of chronic disease - Human Breast milk is A2.
        "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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        • #49
          I gave up dairy for 2 months in order to be as completely primal as possible. Since then I've been slowly adding it back in with no bad effects. Not milk, strangely it doesn't interest me anymore. But OH do I love cream, in coffee, on fruit, and clam chowder and oyster stew with cream are to die for. Hard cheese and soft cheese also, but my total cheese amount is not nearly what it used to be.
          "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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          • #50
            I gave up all dairy recently as part of a 30 day nutrition challenge. I felt awesome at the end of the month, but I had also gone cold turkey on wheat and all sugar, even fruit. So, not sure if it was the lack of dairy that did it. I've mostly kept off the dairy ever since, but I did add back in greek yogurt. No adverse effects.

            I think the big reason I'm staying mostly off dairy at this point is that I find it really easy to eat a lot of cheese without thinking about it, and simply cutting out cheese has really put a big dent in my caloric intake. And it's easier for me to just stay off cheese entirely than eat it sparingly. I have no "off" switch when it comes to cheese.

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            • #51
              Thanks for the replies everyone!

              Don't know if anyone else had this, but I'm quickly seeing that I use dairy to get that "heavy feeling" at the end of a meal? I was mistaking "heaviness" for satiation. I think what satiates me at the end of a meal is a change of flavour, and a cup of mint tea at the end of a meal is delivering that, but I still feel light. (This is probably basic to those of you who have regulated their appetites!)

              I'm pretty sure I'm less bloated too, but I always speak too soon on these things so I'll wait til I measure
              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

              - Ray Peat

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              • #52
                Good plan.

                I have to switch from savory to sweet after the meal, too, but I don't always want more food/nutrition, so I hit up the peppermint tea, chai, or the lemon/honey/ginger. These are actually relatively savory/astringent, but they function as "sweet" in my mouth. LOL

                Or, as you say, change of flavor. The finisher.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                  Good plan.

                  I have to switch from savory to sweet after the meal, too, but I don't always want more food/nutrition, so I hit up the peppermint tea, chai, or the lemon/honey/ginger. These are actually relatively savory/astringent, but they function as "sweet" in my mouth. LOL

                  Or, as you say, change of flavor. The finisher.
                  It usually registers with me as a desire for sweet too... Given that many cultures have a long tradition of sweet deserts after meals there could be some physiological basis to it. Maybe it's a BS thing (blood sugar, not B.S. )

                  Or maybe it's just the desire to clean the palate from the previous flavours. In India they give you a pile of fennel seeds after a meal. YUM and does the trick! But then they also wash everything down with a small glass of milk-and-sugar-laden chai....
                  "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                  In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                  - Ray Peat

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                  • #54
                    I completely quit dairy about 9 months ago when I went "vegan" for a while. I just read too many bad things about milk -- especially casein. About 4-5 months back I went Paleo and about 3 months ago added clarified KerryGold butter to my diet (bulletproof coffee anybody?).

                    In addition, I now consume a small amount of aged cheeses -- especially those made from raw cheeses, but avoid any other dairy products except for cream on rare occasions. I just don't feel comfortable with all of the processing that goes into anything but raw milk based products -- pasteurization, homogenization, hormones, additives, etc.

                    If I could afford it I would consider making raw milk kefir for my daily smoothies. Instead I've been making coconut milk kefir which works quite well.

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                    • #55
                      Raw milk and very aged cheese seem to pass fine. Anything else is a roll of the dice.
                      Crohn's, doing SCD

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                      • #56
                        I love dairy. It hates me. Depending on the source I can exhibit wheezing, congestion, tightmess, deadly gas. I can have whey in tiny amounts and grass-fed butter occasionally and infrequently. I have no withdrawl symptoms. Goat dairy is even worse. So to say the least I rairley ingest unless I think the product is worthy of side effects.

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                        • #57
                          I got a response from Liberte here in Canada, and they said:

                          We do not UHT pasteurise our milk we do a regular pasteurisation. 66 degrés F (74.4 degrés C) during 16 secondes.

                          Obviously, not raw milk, but better than UHT? So, no need to go organic then for yogurt? Or should I go for goat one, since homogenization is natural there?
                          My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                          When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                          • #58
                            Here's my story on dairy: I've been drinking raw grass-fed jersey milk from a local dairy farm this winter, and I usually have had no problems with it. Lately, I've been making smoothies using the milk and putting fruit in it (banana or orange) and some spinach, and 2 raw eggs (local free-range) and I have been having some mild digestion issues...strange noises coming from my gut and mildly loose/frequent stools that can be a little painful. I am wondering if maybe it is the amount of milk that I am drinking in one sitting? Usually if I drink just a glass of milk, I don't notice anything wrong, but these big smoothies sometimes are causing me some issues...anyone else have that experience with the amount?

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                            • #59
                              That would likely be the combination of milk and fruit. Ever since I was small kid I was told not to mix non-fermented dairy and fruit to avoid exactly the symptoms you have described. Just split the fruit and milk consumption by a couple of hours or make kefir.
                              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                              • #60
                                Cool, I thought maybe it could be the combination of the fructose and the milk! Thanks for the tip.

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