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My story - why PB doesn't work for me.

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  • #61
    I think one of the issues with the term "low carb," is low carb in comparison to what?

    If you use the govt's recommendations to get 60% of your calories from carbs, then I'd guess there are a substantial number of Paleo and Primal people who are low carb. And I think/hope that those govt guidelines have finally been debunked by the 30+ years that have made a lot of us who followed them look like fattened up cattle ready for slaughter. At 60%, for an 1800 calorie per day intake, the govt recommends getting 1080 calories from grains, beans, potatoes, etc. That's 270 grams of carbs.

    If you use Mark's guidelines, I'm guessing fewer of us are "low carb." Mark talks about insidious weight gain at about 150 gms of carbs or 600 calories. Also, Mark's carb curve (which I know a lot of people don't like) doesn't address caloric input per day. At least the graphic doesn't; I'd have to search the blog post to see if that addressed it.

    For a person whose point of reference started with cereal every morning, lowfat foods that were made to taste better by adding sugar to them, a lunch between two pieces of bread, frequent pizza (most popular food in the US), lots of fruit (because heaven knows you shouldn't get your vitaminC from peppers or liver), and crackers, chips, etc., laden with corn and HFCS, Primal and Paleo have literally turned their world and their pyramid upside down.

    Anyway, I'm drifting off point. To discuss low carb, you have to have a reference point. Paleo and Primal are lower carb than CW. Within Paleo and Primal are subgroups that are at various levels of carb intake based on their weight, health, activity, and experience.

    Until we define "lower than what," we can't really discuss low carb.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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    • #62
      I myself am 5'10 ish, depending on who or what measures me, I vary between 149-153 any given day of the week, and my personal preference for taste, and activity level, I am low carb by paleo standards. Unless I eat the occasional basmati rice, or sweet potatoes (personal favorite), I eat eggs, beef/pork/turkey/chicken, green leafy/vibrant colors, greek yogurt, lots of fat of course, and I've been throwing in some protein powder on days I feel like it. I eat when I'm hungry, I can't remember the last time my wife and I had a regular dinner schedule, and I can't complain. As Choco said, you begin to lose taste for certain things after a while. If you're lazy and innactive as I have been for the past couple months trying to get caught up on this History class, you adjust the carbs, but otherwise I've learned not to sweat it. Keep the food real. As I say, "if it isn't green/vibrant, and gluten free, or slaughtered, don't eat it."

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      • #63
        There are things I can't lose my taste for. Fruit, and in large quantities for one thing, and lots, and lots, and lots of vegetables, al ot of them tubers, like radishes, carrots, turnips, beets and rutabagas. Just because you force yourself to eat pork with celery, doesn't mean you don't want apples with yogurt instead. Even if you eat the whole pork roast till you want to puke. Just makes you never want to see pork ever again, not to want apple less. Learned that the hard way.

        There are people who do not have a sweet tooth. Mark is one of them, that's why he is genuinely puzzled why anyone would want more than a handful of berries every other week or so, or in season.

        Yes, plenty of people do well on a whole food diet, with very few eliminations. But that is NOT what PB says, not what Paleo says. Those are very restricted labels in their essence. Art DeVincy forbids radishes, let alone carrots. Cordaine forbids vinegar, salt, butter....

        Thinking about Paleo or Primal as all-inclusive is incorrect. It's like my mom's vegetarian pizza that has all the veggies fried with a bit of bacon for taste. It is maybe a great pizza, but it is not vegetarian.
        Last edited by Leida; 02-19-2013, 12:57 PM.
        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Leida View Post
          There are things I can't lose my taste for. Fruit, and in large quantities for one thing, and lots, and lots, and lots of vegetables, al ot of them tubers, like radishes, carrots, turnips, beets and rutabagas. Just because you force yourself to eat pork with celery, doesn't mean you don't want apples with yogurt instead. Even if you eat the whole pork roast till you want to puke. Just makes you never want to see pork ever again, not to want apple less. Learned that the hard way.
          It's a shame, really. Apples go marvellously with pork. :'(
          Dark chocolate and coffee, running through my veins...

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Leida View Post
            There are things I can't lose my taste for. Fruit, and in large quantities for one thing, and lots, and lots, and lots of vegetables, al ot of them tubers, like radishes, carrots, turnips, beets and rutabagas. Just because you force yourself to eat pork with celery, doesn't mean you don't want apples with yogurt instead. Even if you eat the whole pork roast till you want to puke. Just makes you never want to see pork ever again, not to want apple less. Learned that the hard way.

            There are people who do not have a sweet tooth. Mark is one of them, that's why he is genuinely puzzled why anyone would want more than a handful of berries every other week or so, or in season.

            Yes, plenty of people do well on a whole food diet, with very few eliminations. But that is NOT what PB says, not what Paleo says. Those are very restricted labels in their essence. Art DeVincy forbids radishes, let alone carrots. Cordaine forbids vinegar, salt, butter....

            Thinking about Paleo or Primal as all-inclusive is incorrect. It's like my mom's vegetarian pizza that has all the veggies fried with a bit of bacon for taste. It is maybe a great pizza, but it is not vegetarian.
            You're def right that since some people don't have a sweet tooth (me for instance) they assume that everyone else should be fine eating mostly protein/fat and low carb. The opposite is true as well.

            The point does remain though, that despite what the big names in paleo/primal want to debate on, you are still eating real food when you eat fruits and veggies. I agree with the big wigs that fruit/veg aren't as nutritious as meat and fat, but that also plays nicely into my hands because that's what I prefer eating.

            If I were you, I just wouldn't worry about it. It sounds like you don't anymore, which is great. You're not eating sawdust bound with corn syrup.

            So if you eat mostly fruit/veg with some meat/eggs/etc so be it.
            I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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            • #66
              Did not make the nationals for any sport ever, so in PB terms I am not deserving of eating a slice of apple, let alone a whole apple....
              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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              • #67
                Mark is one of them, that's why he is genuinely puzzled why anyone would want more than a handful of berries every other week or so, or in season.
                That's kind of another point of confusion I have. He has a giant list of fruits to eat. I assume fruit is unlimited unless it stalls your weight loss. Like I'll eat 3-4 pieces of fruit a day. I don't get where people think you need to limit fruit, except for the carb curve. I can have a kiwi, banana, apple and 12 strawberries for about 60 grams of carbs a day. Well under the carb curve.

                I do agree you need to work with your food preferences. I'm always confounded when people will eat copious amounts of fat and bacon then freak out over the carbs in a handful of berries.

                http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                  I do agree you need to work with your food preferences. I'm always confounded when people will eat copious amounts of fat and bacon then freak out over the carbs in a handful of berries.
                  This has more to do with the "insulin drives fat storage" theory. So, if you eat fat primarily you don't have to worry about gaining weight. It's flawed, but it does tend to hold true for people that have a lot of weight to lose.
                  I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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                  • #69
                    OP: Thanks for being polite in your assessment of how PB worked for you.

                    I hope that if anything, spending time as paleo/primal has given you insight into food and nutrition and the industry involved in food.

                    I hope that you understand that paleo and primal are not inherently low carb. Many people go low carb for the sake of weight loss - you are not a person who needs to lose weight. Low carb is likely not something you should ever have been doing. I suspect that if there is no emotional stressor leading to your binges, the carb and calorie restriction may have been the underlying cause, as others here have already mentioned. Read this timely article just posted on the Whole30 site about why food tracking can be so detrimental. I definitely find it so, for me.

                    The most important things you can take away from the paleosphere, as you called it, is this:

                    Whole, unprocessed foods are best
                    Eat when you are hungry, don't eat when you are not hungry

                    If you want to add grains back in to your life, then by all means do so. Try out this website that I love that is all about eating unprocessed. This family DOES eat grains, so if that is something you want to do, this website has a lot of good advice about it.

                    You seem to have already made your choice, but I would urge you not to give up on primal just yet. Or at the very least, if you go back to the standard american diet, retain the practices of local sourcing, clean eating, and moving often.

                    Good Luck!
                    yay!

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                    • #70
                      My 15 years paleo/primal were pure hell and basically made me anorexic. I've left for other reasons though, not so I can agree with others more or be more sociable. I've realized without question it's a spooky world out there; I can't just stop seeking when theres so much dietary b.s. I've had to put up with in my life. Whatever you do, keep seeking the truth. Don't eat and live like everyone else so you can be comfortable. Starches and PUFAs will get you, one way or another.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by fiercehunter View Post
                        My 15 years paleo/primal were pure hell and basically made me anorexic. I've left for other reasons though, not so I can agree with others more or be more sociable. I've realized without question it's a spooky world out there; I can't just stop seeking when theres so much dietary b.s. I've had to put up with in my life. Whatever you do, keep seeking the truth. Don't eat and live like everyone else so you can be comfortable. Starches and PUFAs will get you, one way or another.
                        Originally posted by fiercehunter View Post
                        It's too many calories for most. The body needs carbs, not fat.
                        I... just... don't... get... it...
                        The Champagne of Beards

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                          That's kind of another point of confusion I have. He has a giant list of fruits to eat. I assume fruit is unlimited unless it stalls your weight loss. Like I'll eat 3-4 pieces of fruit a day. I don't get where people think you need to limit fruit, except for the carb curve. I can have a kiwi, banana, apple and 12 strawberries for about 60 grams of carbs a day. Well under the carb curve.

                          I do agree you need to work with your food preferences. I'm always confounded when people will eat copious amounts of fat and bacon then freak out over the carbs in a handful of berries.
                          Yeah I didn't read any of this quote, but magnolia you looking good up in that avatar girlfriend.
                          If I just said LOL, I lied. Do or do not. There is no try.

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                          • #73
                            I think a lot of people have the 'all or nothing' mindset, especially when following PB or Paleo. I'm not sure why. It's taken me a long time to reign in my all or nothing self and realize I can't always be all or nothing, but I can be 'most of the time'. I eat dairy because it doesn't mess with my stomach, as far as I know, and it helps keep my meals interesting. I avoid fruit because, for me, it makes me hungrier. I love meat. I love bacon. I love vegetables. I love eggs. PB works out very well for me.

                            The things I miss horrendously are things like pizza and sugar. Notice I just said 'sugar' and not something made with sugar. I genuinely miss all things sugary because they taste so amazing. I, personally, can't handle anything that contains more than like 5gs of sugar. It sends me off the deep end and I binge.

                            But these are all personal things. Eating fats makes me happy, satisfied and not binging. In fact, I've lost a pound without counting calories! That doesn't mean everyone has to give up fruit, or eat dairy, or have bacon every morning...I'm sure there are some people following PB who eat tons of fruit and are totally happy.

                            Anyways, I think some people take things like paleo or PB to a whole new level, beyond an experiment in trying to learn about themselves and what they should eat and it ends up being a race to perfection by cutting out tons of food groups.

                            That's my two cents, but I've only been PB for a month now.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by itchy166 View Post
                              Sounds to me like you still ARE Primal.
                              Yeah, I had the same experiences as primal (twins!) and I still regard myself as primal.
                              Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                              I... just... don't... get... it...
                              My rule of thumb is to not take advice from people with a history of disordered eating.
                              Last edited by magicmerl; 02-19-2013, 03:23 PM.
                              Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                              Griff's cholesterol primer
                              5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                              Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                              TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                              bloodorchid is always right

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Leida View Post
                                I guess, it whatever makes a person more comfortable. I am more comfortable with not calling myself anything, because I am a stickler by nature. So when I call myself Primal, I feel obliged to follow the rules, and get pushed into the psychological conflict over an apple, that inevitably leads to overeating on the 'approved' foods with a crappy net result. Other people feel more comfortable with having a name to their WOE even if they bend the rules, and they would argue that they are doing it right, customizing it, etc. Whatever floats each person's boat.

                                I also have a level of discomfort I am willing to accept for eating a specific food. A touch of a bloat after eating cabbage is not gonna stop me from enjoying cabbages. I am not going do GAPS because I farted three times. And I am gonna still eat honey and be philosophical about the few zits popping up once in a while.
                                Yeah, pretty much how i think i will approach food from now on too. Limit the stuff that do seem to trigger some sort of negative consequences (if you personally feel they are negative), but still enjoy them. I have been avoiding onions due to fructose malabsorption for years, screw it i say, i will cook liver and onions as part of a dish i will have now and then. Same applies to other foods i have been avoiding. Life really is too short to worry about these things, adapt and grow more like it.

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