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Why the harshness about starches?

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  • Why the harshness about starches?

    It's been a while since I went back and reread some of Mark's earliest posts about primal basics, and I found myself kind of confused all over again. He seems to suggest that starchy carbs -- sweet potato, butternut squash, etc -- should be used only if you're quite active.

    But does it really matter whether you're eating carbs from broccoli or carbs from sweet potatoes, if the carb count comes out the same at the end of the day? I personally find sweet potato far more satisfying than broccoli or brussel sprouts (though I enjoy the taste of all of them), so I tend to "spend" my carb limit on a sweet potato each day rather than a few cups of sprouts. Am I correct that I should see little difference in my resulting body composition? (I walk a lot, with occasional sprints, but not much beyond that).

  • #2
    I don't think it matters if the carb count comes out the same at the end of the day.

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    • #3
      It's a matter of nutrient density. It doesn't matter so long as the carb count comes out the same AND you get the same micronutrients
      Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

      Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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      • #4
        Originally posted by peril View Post
        It's a matter of nutrient density. It doesn't matter so long as the carb count comes out the same AND you get the same micronutrients
        This.
        Dark chocolate and coffee, running through my veins...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by peril View Post
          It's a matter of nutrient density. It doesn't matter so long as the carb count comes out the same AND you get the same micronutrients
          That makes perfect sense to me, but then why do people all over the forums state that their weight loss stops when they eat them? or that they only eat them on hard workout days?

          are they simply overdoing the carbs (since starchy vegetables are more carb-dense, thus they need to be more carefully counted)?

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          • #6
            Starchy carbs are simply VERY easy to overeat compared to non starchy carbs. And if you are always eating a sweet potato instead of broccoli (and all the other veggies out there!) you will miss out on the nutrients. That seems to be the thing.

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            • #7
              Some of us don't feel so great (ie bloated and tired), after eating too much of them.
              But lots around here don't believe that is possible.

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              • #8
                I feel more lethargic after eating starches -- and I have to eat more to feel satisfied, so I tend to overeat them.

                Sticking to veggies is better for me.

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                • #9
                  Don't some carbs come with a higher glycemic index? ie the starchier foods have higher glycemic values, which is why we should stick to broccoli and other foods that have the carbs but not the "sugars"... It is late and I am not thinking clearly.
                  Began Primal Living: 25 Sep 2012
                  Starting Weight: 82kg (180 lbs) - Lost 30 lbs since going Primal!

                  "I do not eat enough carbs to justify eating low-fat."
                  "Have some bread with your bread, pasta, bread, and HFCS." - Unicorn
                  "I also walk my dog twice a day now instead of paying someone else to do it." - IronGirl
                  "Tell me you're not weak minded enough to be outsmarted by a donut?" - not on the rug


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                  • #10
                    There's lots of pro-starch people around (just do a search for "potato"!)

                    Part of the thing about starches is the blood sugar spike, which makes them unsuitable for people with blood sugar issues. I eat rice most days, but I know my limit - too big a portion and I get a hypoglycemic reaction that makes me crave sugar.

                    I actually made a vague attempt to do the potato diet but I only lasted one meal - waaay too much starch for me.
                    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                    - Ray Peat

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PrimalStudent View Post
                      are they simply overdoing the carbs (since starchy vegetables are more carb-dense, thus they need to be more carefully counted)?
                      It just depends. Some people don't need to keep their carb-level at ketosis levels (-50), even if they're trying to lose weight. At the end of the day, it's also about the total calories you're eating.

                      I eat them on both training days and rest days.

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                      • #12
                        I think the whole concept that unless you are a star athlete you can't touch carrots or need to view bananas as your ticket to replacing Shamu next performance is incorrect. Imo, what you need to watch for is the levels of satiation and the desired body response (fat loss, muscle gain, whatever). Everyone is so individual. I don't satiate on the fat cooked with the meal and fatty meats (though I well might feel like throwing up at the sight of eggs with bacon, I doubt it's a healthy weight-loss strategy). I go suicidal if I don't eat fruit daily, and starches when the body requests them - if I don't I end up binging non-stopped on fat and protein, and nothing fills me up. I respond better to specific scheduling in carb intake (evening) and taking my fats separately to keep fuller. My blood sugar got destabilized when I tried to eat things like you normally would after I ate fruit, but when I started taking fats separately, lo and behold, I can have fruit without shakes and appetite-rollacoaster. And, I am not an athletic wonder by any means. For the longest times I thought maybe eating as I 'should' is a good idea, as it's o contrary to my nature, but it only backfires. If you want squash, eat squash. Whenever. I go for a few days in a row without wanting any starches, then I can't get enough of them. Same with meat. I think the body knows better than the bestest theory.
                        Last edited by Leida; 02-15-2013, 06:49 AM.
                        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                        • #13
                          Sissons older posts are carbophobic to say the least. Also his carb curve is just plain wrong and outdated.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Zach View Post
                            Sissons older posts are carbophobic to say the least. Also his carb curve is just plain wrong and outdated.
                            Zach- what is a more updated/ accurate carb "curb"/mentality?

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                            • #15
                              I am not Zach, but I think 'normal' carb 'curve' doesn't exist. Normal, imo, is enjoying vegetables without weighing it, and having a whole fruit as a serving when you feel like it - unless you want no more while you are eating it. Normal is not 'blackberries are better than peaches' so I will eat blackberries, even though I am dying for a peach. Normal is eating when you are hungry, and stopping when you are full. Normal is having a potato if you crave starch and not worrying if you have lifted 2 hours prior to that. Normal is... eating fresh food that satisfies your appetite....
                              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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