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  • #76
    Originally posted by Bifcus View Post
    Addressing just this one part of the question:




    According to this study Role of the evolutionarily conserved starvati... [Mol Psychiatry. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI This lack of hunger is part of the reason behind Anorexia Nervosa (AN).

    It says:
    "......AN is primarily a metabolic disorder caused by defective regulation of the starvation response, which leads to ambivalence towards food, decreased food consumption and characteristic psychopathology."
    "We will .... describe the central role of insulin .. (and related hormones)... signaling in this response."
    "We will also discuss how initial bouts of caloric restriction may alter the production of neurotransmitters that regulate appetite and food-seeking behavior and thus, set in motion a vicious cycle."

    So what they are saying is that due to the starvation response, AN sufferers do not feel normal hunger. The concern is that as you have been restricting calories for a fair while, you have triggered the same response as the AN suffers, hence you are genuinely not hungry whilst eating a calorie restricted diet. You want to get out of that part of the vicious cycle, and the suggestion is that you eat maintenance calories for a while until the starvation response goes away and normal hunger response kicks back in.

    As to why they lose weight and you don't ? I'll be curious to see the answer.
    I am just not seeing how sm could exist since these people get so thin and even die

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    • #77
      There has to be more to it.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
        But when I have counted I have ended up around 1200 calories anyway. What I am eating hasn't changed since I was counting, but apparently this is starvation mode for me.
        I agree with dragonfly. I think you are stressing yourself out and heading toward "analysis paralysis." At some point, you're going to just have to make a decision and *try* something.

        I simply suggested how you adjust your macronutrient ratios since so many posts you said it would be difficult to increase your calories. If you are "comfortable" with 1200 calories right now (ie, it's no real effort), then adjust your *macros* and see what happens.

        If you go to 100g of carbs, it's truly easy enough to do. I do it with non-starchy veggies and a piece or two of fruit (usually berries or citrus).

        Once you calculate your protein needs, you'll go from there.

        And you might discover that you start eating more. . . or stay the same. . . or whatever. You'll see. You're not likely to get it "perfect" on the first go. but you'll get more information, and that has value.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
          I am just not seeing how sm could exist since these people get so thin and even die
          Most people who are anorexic and/or bulimic - at least, that have been recognised - are typically at a low/normal weight or just a little overweight to start with.

          That's my take, anyway.
          Dark chocolate and coffee, running through my veins...

          Fitocracy Workout Tracker:
          https://www.fitocracy.com/profile/Shadowknight137/?feed
          MFP Food Diary:
          http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/Shadowknight137
          (Date is New Zealand Time UTC+ 12hours)

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          • #80
            Ayla--I don't want to add yet another idea to this incredible list of good--although I see how confusing--ideas coming down this thread. But you might consider signing up for Mark's new program that sets you up with a personal mentor who can sit down (virtually) with you and gather all this information into one form with one voice to help you (a) understand and (b) give you a plan that will help you with your journey. Just a thought...

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            • #81
              Originally posted by AngryKiwi47 View Post
              Most people who are anorexic and/or bulimic - at least, that have been recognised - are typically at a low/normal weight or just a little overweight to start with.

              That's my take, anyway.
              This I also wondered but surely this is not always the case

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              • #82
                Originally posted by drjoyous View Post
                Ayla--I don't want to add yet another idea to this incredible list of good--although I see how confusing--ideas coming down this thread. But you might consider signing up for Mark's new program that sets you up with a personal mentor who can sit down (virtually) with you and gather all this information into one form with one voice to help you (a) understand and (b) give you a plan that will help you with your journey. Just a thought...
                +1 you beat me to that one.
                "It's a great life, if you don't weaken.". John Buchan

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
                  So eating 3 x a day leaner protein, lots of veg. Do you think that would help?
                  Ayla, it worked for me and I would think it is worth a try. That way of eating rapidly dealt with my bloating and menopausal symptoms as well as a few kilos of excess fat I was carrying. I did not have the level of problems that you are endeavouring to overcome though. I admire your determination to resolve your health issues, and wish you every success. I'm sure the weight thing will fall into line as well once you are doing right by your body.
                  Annie Ups the Ante
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread117711.html

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                    Ayla, have you considered herbs and spices to help with insulin resistance? They're no magic bullet, but they can be a part of a natural, diet-based solution for sure. Just a few examples:
                    [/url]
                    I am considering going to my naturopath anyway, and if I took herbs, it would be ones from her.
                    Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                    I agree with dragonfly. I think you are stressing yourself out and heading toward "analysis paralysis." At some point, you're going to just have to make a decision and *try* something.

                    I simply suggested how you adjust your macronutrient ratios since so many posts you said it would be difficult to increase your calories. If you are "comfortable" with 1200 calories right now (ie, it's no real effort), then adjust your *macros* and see what happens.

                    If you go to 100g of carbs, it's truly easy enough to do. I do it with non-starchy veggies and a piece or two of fruit (usually berries or citrus).

                    Once you calculate your protein needs, you'll go from there.

                    And you might discover that you start eating more. . . or stay the same. . . or whatever. You'll see. You're not likely to get it "perfect" on the first go. but you'll get more information, and that has value.
                    I will def try to change one thing at a time and go from there.

                    Originally posted by drjoyous View Post
                    Ayla--I don't want to add yet another idea to this incredible list of good--although I see how confusing--ideas coming down this thread. But you might consider signing up for Mark's new program that sets you up with a personal mentor who can sit down (virtually) with you and gather all this information into one form with one voice to help you (a) understand and (b) give you a plan that will help you with your journey. Just a thought...
                    This could be a possibility.

                    Originally posted by Annieh View Post
                    Ayla, it worked for me and I would think it is worth a try. That way of eating rapidly dealt with my bloating and menopausal symptoms as well as a few kilos of excess fat I was carrying. I did not have the level of problems that you are endeavouring to overcome though. I admire your determination to resolve your health issues, and wish you every success. I'm sure the weight thing will fall into line as well once you are doing right by your body.
                    Thanks for that. I really appreciate it.
                    I do hope so

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      I think maybe you're underestimating just how much fat calories even the "leaner" meats have. Even when cooked in minimal oil they can still end up having over half the calories coming from fat. Don't take this as an insult but I think you're drastically underestimating the amount of fat calories you're consuming, which is extremely easy to do when you're dealing with fats because they're so calorie dense. Nearly all studies have shown that people dramatically miscalculate the amount of calories they're actually consuming. I was shocked a few weeks ago when I weighed the splash of coconut cream I put in my coffee. I thought it was about 50 calories worth, turns out it was almost 200. I think all this talk about you being in "starvation mode" is junk. True starvation mode is not only a rare occurrence but still only equates to a few hundred calories a day difference.


                      Adding lots and lots of vegetables is a good idea, but I really don't think the bulletproof coffee's are helping your situation.
                      Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 02-15-2013, 03:16 AM.

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                      • #86
                        These men starved on 1600 calories a day. A very normal nimber you would see men today trying to lose weight on.

                        Minnesota Starvation Experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          You will likely have 40 to 60 % of fat on this type of a plan, averaging around 50%. Even if your lean meat is Pollock and turkey breast. I was surprised when I put my day through a calculator a few days back. Note how almost all protein choices are very lean -I steamed my fish and boiled my eggs & micro'd egg whites, seafood gumbo was shrimps-, but it ended up with at least 40% fat iirc, with my 2 tbsp of oil for Shangri-La appetite supression (FitDay doesn't show the breakdown graph today, gods know why).

                          Egg, whole, boiled 2
                          Olive oil 2 tablespoon
                          Egg, white only, raw 1
                          cup
                          Beef, broth, bouillon, or consomme 1
                          cup
                          Grapefruit, raw 1
                          medium (approx 4" dia)
                          Seafood Gumbo, 1.5 cups 0.3
                          serving
                          Cabbage, green, raw 2
                          cup, chopped
                          Fish, flatfish (flounder and sole species), cooked, dry heat 225
                          grams
                          Jell-O Cup 4
                          serving
                          Whey Protein Isolate 1
                          serving
                          Cranberries, raw 1
                          cup, whole
                          Cheese, Cheddar or American type 20
                          grams
                          Last edited by Leida; 02-15-2013, 08:14 AM.
                          My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                          When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Zach View Post
                            These men starved on 1600 calories a day. A very normal nimber you would see men today trying to lose weight on.

                            Minnesota Starvation Experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                            Intersting link thanks. I'm always kind of shocked to see how little people will eat to lose weight. I have been slowly but steadily losing at 3000-3100kcal per day. I would be seriously cranky at 1600...
                            "It's a great life, if you don't weaken.". John Buchan

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by itchy166 View Post
                              Intersting link thanks. I'm always kind of shocked to see how little people will eat to lose weight. I have been slowly but steadily losing at 3000-3100kcal per day. I would be seriously cranky at 1600...
                              Right. Most people wont eat 3000 calories even if they are not trying to lose weight. We have become a nation that fears the very things that gives us life.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Protein requires one of the other two macronutrients (fat, or carbs) in order for you not to go into protein starvation. And I don't think HFLC is a bad thing, anyway- I would think it would be helping your diabetes by keeping your insulin spikes down. What about keeping your current macro ratios but cut back some on portions, or add resistance training (to up your metabolism)? Was your thyroid tested?
                                High Weight: 225
                                Weight at start of Primal: 189
                                Current Weight: 174
                                Goal Weight: 130

                                Primal Start Date: 11/26/2012

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