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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
    But this is truly what I am doing.
    I was counting calories when I first went HFLC yes, but it makes me obessed and crazy. If I am hungry I do eat, I just don't often have hunger, which I was attributing to the higher fat, particularly in the BP coffee. Which is why I wondered about eating leaner proteins but 3 times per day if I can. I would gather with lowering my fat id get hungrier anyway.

    Anorexia? I am over 100 lbs over weight and not exactly dropping huge amounts quickly. I do believe the higher fats are making me not as hungry.

    I don't think you are a jackass, truly. Just trying to work out what is best. This whole thing is insane for me.
    Anorexia isn't necessarily defined by weight. If it was, I'd have been classed as anorexic when I was at 47kg, 165cm. Was I? Nope, just nutritionally uneducated and unsure of what was wrong.

    If what you say is true, I highly recommend the second option I gave you. Get back on MFP. Set a realistic kcal goal. Join the Paleo/Primal support group. Meet your goal daily.

    Yeah, it can be confusing, all this stuff. But people can and will help if you let them, and you will get the hang of it - I speak from experience; trust me.
    Dark chocolate and coffee, running through my veins...

    Fitocracy Workout Tracker:
    https://www.fitocracy.com/profile/Shadowknight137/?feed
    MFP Food Diary:
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/Shadowknight137
    (Date is New Zealand Time UTC+ 12hours)

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    • #17
      Yeah but whos advice do I listen to about the amount of calories and macro breakdown?
      There is so much info out there, it is hard to know which way to go to.

      Counting calories and macros has not gone well for me in the past, as it has lead to many binges. I have not binged in ages, and I am terrified of going back there. Being out of control like that is awful, and I just can't do that.

      Surely counting calories doesn't have to be the answer.

      Comment


      • #18
        Zach and angry kiwi, how does your theory of starvation mode relate to extremely high insulin?

        The Dr says its why weight loss has been harder, but you are saying I am not eating enough.

        Can you see why I am confused? It has to be one answer surely? It can't be everything.

        OK I do know I need to eat more, and I think lowering my fats will do that, and I am fine with doing that. But if I am eating more, will it have anything to do with bringing the insulin level down? Or do I truly need this drug the Dr wants me to take?

        I need to understand this 100%

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        • #19
          Is this true?
          I just found on a site when I googled insulin and weight loss:

          So insulin turns OFF the fat burning switch and turns ON the fat storage switch. This is bad enough, but it can also cause you to lose lean muscle. Here is how…when insulin brings down the blood sugar levels often times it “over-corrects” by causing low blood sugar. The body normally combats low blood sugar by releasing energy from stored fat, but the high level of insulin will not allow this to happen. The only source of energy in this circumstance is protein. Your body will break down muscle protein when faced with this dilemma. It is a bad situation…gaining fat while at the same time losing lean muscle. Not a good deal at all!

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          • #20
            Well now Zach you could actually be right about something just teasing.

            I found this from Mark:
            I cut this from it:
            To sum up, I don’t think you need to worry about insulin resistance as long as you’re still losing weight – which you appear to be doing – since weight loss exerts a powerful effect on insulin sensitivity. However, once you’re lean, or have stalled without changing anything, moving back toward the 100-150 Primal carb gram range will keep your insulin receptors “honest” without causing weight gain (and it may even jumpstart weight loss again). Lifting heavy things, sprinting every once in awhile (in a manner suitable for your physical limitations), and doing lots of slow moving will also keep you insulin-sensitive, particularly after the physical activity.

            Read more: Does Eating a Low Carb Diet Cause Insulin Resistance? | Mark's Daily Apple

            I just don't know what to think any more.

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            • #21
              Ayla, it seems like you are just coming back to wanting to lose weight now. There are a bunch of threads on here you can read for that.

              Here's my take on it:

              1. Weight loss IS about caloric restriction

              2. The easiest way to eat less AND feel full is by minimising carbs (hence fat + protein). This doesn't mean cutting carbs out completely, just make them a minor part of any meal. Low Carb + Low Fat is the worst of all worlds (if actually followed, it leads to rabbit starvation).

              3. The trick to not slowing your metabolism is to FEAST once a week, so your body still thinks the good times are here. The other 6 days, eat normally/sparingly/only to hunger/IF. I don't calorie count, but skipping lunch has the desired effect of reducing calories for me. This is the same as people who cut out bread and don't fully replace it with other foods. They've inadvertently reduced theor calorie intake.
              Last edited by magicmerl; 02-14-2013, 06:40 PM.
              Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

              Griff's cholesterol primer
              5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
              Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
              TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
              bloodorchid is always right

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
                Yeah but whos advice do I listen to about the amount of calories and macro breakdown?
                There is so much info out there, it is hard to know which way to go to.

                Counting calories and macros has not gone well for me in the past, as it has lead to many binges. I have not binged in ages, and I am terrified of going back there. Being out of control like that is awful, and I just can't do that.

                Surely counting calories doesn't have to be the answer.
                No, it doesn't have to be the answer. Do I recommend it? Absolutely. Why? Because - deny it to your hearts content, if you must - but intuitive Primal eating doesn't seem to be working for you. For now, anyway.
                Would I suggest you eat non-Primal foods? Nope. There's no reason you can't count calories and eat Paleo/Primal - I sure do. Once you've gotten some healthier eating habits, ie, knowing how much you need to eat, you can stop. This is like... let's think of it as training wheels.

                Let me give you some advice on calories. This is my take.
                Now, I don't know your BMR, TDEE or whatever. But this is how you start:

                1g protein per lb of bodyweight.
                0.5g fat per lb bodyweight.

                In my case, that's 121g protein (484kcal) and 55g fat (495kcal). These are MINIMUM.

                Now, my BMR is 1400 something, my TDEE is 2000 - but I'm eating 22-2400 to gain. So, to calculate:
                2200-484-495
                =1221 remaining calories.

                Those remaining calories you can fill with ANYTHING. Carbs, fats, protein - whatever you like. Want a sweet potato? Eat up! More bacon? Go for it! So long as you get minimum protein and fat requirements, fill the rest of our remaining calories wth whatever.
                Just remember to fill them.

                Work out things for you the same way. Ignore MFP's calories suggestions; they're generally to extreme. Set yourself to lightly active at least (at LEAST), then deduct 10-20% off that and set that number as your goal to lose weight.


                This, IMO, is the best way to go about anything. Weight loss or gain - I'm doing the very same thing, just in reverse.

                Hope that this helps.
                Dark chocolate and coffee, running through my veins...

                Fitocracy Workout Tracker:
                https://www.fitocracy.com/profile/Shadowknight137/?feed
                MFP Food Diary:
                http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/Shadowknight137
                (Date is New Zealand Time UTC+ 12hours)

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                • #23
                  Well protein is the one component that is the least manipulable. Most people do Ok between 10-30%. Get much outside of those ranges and you have issues. There are absolutely drawbacks to going too low or too high in protein. Hence why fat and and carbs are your sources of energy. Using protein for energy is not a good plan.
                  Last edited by Neckhammer; 02-14-2013, 06:40 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Sorry neckhammer, I didn't mean huge amounts of protein, small handsized portions at a meal, cooked in a small amount of fat, not a lot, like now.

                    Angry kiwi, I am 233 lbs. Those numbers you posted are going over my head.

                    MM that has come back to the front of this, as I know being overweight is part of the problem, and also my concern for my son at school. I know losing weight will bring down the insulin.

                    Feasting once a week on what? I could try it, but it honestly sounds like a danger zone for me. Have you had bingeing issues in the past, and been able to do that now without a problem?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by AngryKiwi47 View Post
                      [B]1g protein per lb of bodyweight.
                      0.5g fat per lb bodyweight.

                      So 233 g of protein? Is this not a huge amount? Before when I was counting I was looking at around 60 g according to the formula used by most in the HFLC thread.
                      and about 115 g of fat?
                      My BMR is - 1811
                      TDEE - 2806
                      How did you calculate those other numbers?

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                      • #26
                        It is certainly your HFLC very low calorie diet that is the cause of your insulin resistance. There is no doubt in my mind. It is certainly made worse by the amount of fat you have.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Zach View Post
                          It is certainly your HFLC very low calorie diet that is the cause of your insulin resistance. There is no doubt in my mind. It is certainly made worse by the amount of fat you have.
                          Please explain to me how in such a short amount of time.
                          I need to understand this. How does fat come into it?

                          Please don't just post links, I need a simple explanation I can understand.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by AngryKiwi47
                            1g protein per lb of bodyweight.
                            0.5g fat per lb bodyweight.
                            Two complaints about these numbers:

                            1. One gram of protein per pound of LEAN bodyweight. And nobody has 0% bodyfat. The reason for this change is that protein maintains muscle and much beyond what you need to do that is kind of irrelevant. You aren't trying to use it to maintain BODYFAT, right?

                            2. Any sort of fat recomendation is largely moot. Eat fat. As much as you want. As long as it's within the context of the caloric intake level you are trying to reach and you are still getting adequate amounts of other nutrients.
                            "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                              Two complaints about these numbers:

                              1. One gram of protein per pound of LEAN bodyweight. And nobody has 0% bodyfat. The reason for this change is that protein maintains muscle and much beyond what you need to do that is kind of irrelevant. You aren't trying to use it to maintain BODYFAT, right?

                              2. Any sort of fat recomendation is largely moot. Eat fat. As much as you want. As long as it's within the context of the caloric intake level you are trying to reach and you are still getting adequate amounts of other nutrients.
                              1: Yes, this is true. I just gave a general recommendation because most people don't know and/or miscalculate their bodyfat percentage.

                              2: Yes, that's why I said minimum, then fill the remainder of your calories with whatever. I'm saying that yes, you can eat carbs, so long as they fit in your calorie goal and that you get adequate fat intake.
                              Dark chocolate and coffee, running through my veins...

                              Fitocracy Workout Tracker:
                              https://www.fitocracy.com/profile/Shadowknight137/?feed
                              MFP Food Diary:
                              http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/Shadowknight137
                              (Date is New Zealand Time UTC+ 12hours)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                                Two complaints about these numbers:

                                1. One gram of protein per pound of LEAN bodyweight. And nobody has 0% bodyfat. The reason for this change is that protein maintains muscle and much beyond what you need to do that is kind of irrelevant. You aren't trying to use it to maintain BODYFAT, right?

                                2. Any sort of fat recomendation is largely moot. Eat fat. As much as you want. As long as it's within the context of the caloric intake level you are trying to reach and you are still getting adequate amounts of other nutrients.
                                How does BMR and TDEE help work out calories requirements? 1800 approx is my BMR, and 2800 approx is my TDEE, does it mean I meant to eat some where between the 2? That is a huge jump from what I am eating now.

                                There is too many damn numbers!! Who do I listen to? This is causing me more stress, because I don't know who is right.
                                Not getting angry at anyone except myself. I should never have put myself in this position.

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