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Omega 6/3 ratio - explain?

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  • Omega 6/3 ratio - explain?

    Hi all,

    I remember in Mark's book he talked about Omega 6 vs. omega 3 and it seems paleo tracker keeps track of that saying that ideally our omega 6/3 ratio should be around 2.3:1. Seems mine hovers at 4:1, but yesterday it was 8:1. Can anyone help me determine how to lower that ratio? What kinds of foods are high in Omega 6? I could look it up in Mark's book, but thought for now it would be easier to ask here while it's on my mind and the computer is in front of me! Thanks!

  • #2
    Primal foods that are high in omega-6 include nuts and seeds, chicken, and pork (all pork, but especially CAFO pork). Limit these.

    Balance it with fatty fish and lots of grass-fed beef(I think I read this can be as low as 1:1 n-6:n-3 ratio).

    Don't worry about your day-to-day ratio. It's a long-term issue. Don't try to "fix" too much omega-6 intake by taking a ton of fish oil. This used to be suggested, but has fallen out of favor. Best to keep total PUFA intake low.
    The Champagne of Beards

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by julesy View Post
      Hi all,

      I remember in Mark's book he talked about Omega 6 vs. omega 3 and it seems paleo tracker keeps track of that saying that ideally our omega 6/3 ratio should be around 2.3:1. Seems mine hovers at 4:1, but yesterday it was 8:1. Can anyone help me determine how to lower that ratio? What kinds of foods are high in Omega 6? I could look it up in Mark's book, but thought for now it would be easier to ask here while it's on my mind and the computer is in front of me! Thanks!
      Great article here on this. I'm also a big fan of Udo's Oil, if you have a health food store nearby.
      Last edited by OldGuy; 02-14-2013, 09:19 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Pretty much all animal foods are higher in o6 then o3. Most fish being the exception. Avocados, olive oil, eggs also have higher o6.

        I wouldnt worry so much about the ratio, just try to limit o6 from packaged foods, oils and grain fed and farmed animal products. Eat wild/pastured/free range, whenever possible.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Zach View Post
          Pretty much all animal foods are higher in o6 then o3. Most fish being the exception. Avocados, olive oil, eggs also have higher o6.

          I wouldnt worry so much about the ratio, just try to limit o6 from packaged foods, oils and grain fed and farmed animal products. Eat wild/pastured/free range, whenever possible.
          Had to do a double take, but I agree with this.
          The Champagne of Beards

          Comment


          • #6
            I've read ratios of 1-1 to 4-1 is ideal for O6-O3.

            Omega-6 fatty acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
            Modern Western diets typically have ratios of n−6 to n−3 in excess of 10 to 1, some as high as 30 to 1; the average ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 in the Western diet is 15/116.7/1.[6] Humans are thought to have evolved with a diet of a 1-to-1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 and the optimal ratio is thought to be 4 to 1 or lower,[6][7] and it is even better if there is more omega−3 than omega−6 (especially healthy ratio of omega−6 to omega−3 is from 1:1 to 1:4).[8] A ratio of 23/1 omega 6 to omega 3 helped reduce inflammation in patients with rheumatoid arthritis.[6] A ratio of 5/1 had a beneficial effect on patients with asthma but a 10/1 ratio had a negative effect.[6] A ratio of 2.5/1 reduced rectal cell proliferation in patients with colorectal cancer, whereas a ratio of 4/1 had no effect.[6]

            Excess n−6 fats interfere with the health benefits of n−3 fats, in part because they compete for the same rate-limiting enzymes. A high proportion of n−6 to n−3 fat in the diet shifts the physiological state in the tissues toward the pathogenesis of many diseases: prothrombotic, proinflammatory and proconstrictive.[9]
            Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
              Had to do a double take, but I agree with this.
              Haha, im sure you would be surprised at how much effort i put into my diet and health.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                Primal foods that are high in omega-6 include nuts and seeds, chicken, and pork (all pork, but especially CAFO pork). Limit these.

                Balance it with fatty fish and lots of grass-fed beef(I think I read this can be as low as 1:1 n-6:n-3 ratio).

                Don't worry about your day-to-day ratio. It's a long-term issue. Don't try to "fix" too much omega-6 intake by taking a ton of fish oil. This used to be suggested, but has fallen out of favor. Best to keep total PUFA intake low.
                Rich:
                Can you say more about this? I've been wondering if DH's high LDL particle number might be the result of too many PUFA's via fish oil. It is a good one -- from Life Extension -- but I was thinking he might cut the dosage in half.
                Starting Weight: 197.5
                Current Weight: 123
                Far healthier!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Zach View Post
                  Haha, im sure you would be surprised at how much effort i put into my diet and health.
                  Not really. I'm surprised at how much effort you put into counter-primal evangelism.

                  Originally posted by janie
                  Rich:
                  Can you say more about this? I've been wondering if DH's high LDL particle number might be the result of too many PUFA's via fish oil. It is a good one -- from Life Extension -- but I was thinking he might cut the dosage in half.
                  I'm not really qualified to get into this much more. But the Chrises Kresser & Masterjohn are:
                  Episode 11 – Chris Masterjohn on cholesterol & heart disease (Part 1) (part 1 of 3, just follow the links)

                  As is Peter Attia, if you want to read a 9-part (so far) magnum opus that will make you understand cholesterol so well your doctor will call you for advice (ha, as if they listened!)
                  The straight dope on cholesterol
                  The Champagne of Beards

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Maybe my opinion is skewed, but I think the omega 3:6 ratio is complete BS and meaningless. The issue in my opinion is that the SAD just contains far too much rancid omega 6 from industrial seed oils, grains and legumes. There is some disconnect where people think omega 3 and omega 6 are essential and you'll die without them. That's absolutely stupid because of how that came about. It was based on some study where animals were fed fully hydrogenated oils so all the unsaturates were removed and the animals died. No kidding - there are no fully hydrogenated oils in nature and you're not eating real food. Maybe that's the issue?

                    Everything in nature contains fat. Every fat in nature contains some level of saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fat. Eat real food, not processed fats.

                    It's that simple. Don't worry about balancing some omega 3:6 ratio, just eat real food and it'll be fine. Focus on avoiding processed, refined fats because they are unstable. IMO, the issue isn't the ratio but people with high 6:3 ratios simply EAT A LOT OF REFINED SEED OILS! Eating a lot of nuts will skew your 6:3 ratio pretty highly, but IMO a 10:1 ratio that's due to a high consumption of poultry and nuts is not going to have the same issue as a 10:1 ratio where the foundation of your diet is grains and soybean oil.

                    And that's the issue IMO. Not the ratio, but the intake of oxidized and trans fats. Now you have people popping oxidized fish oil that traveled hundreds of miles in the back of some hot tractor trailer and sat under fluorescent lighting on store shelves for months refined from farmed fish in the name of balancing a ratio...not for me. Just eliminate the bad fats from your diet and you'll be okay.
                    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 02-15-2013, 07:37 AM.
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                      Not really. I'm surprised at how much effort you put into counter-primal evangelism.



                      I'm not really qualified to get into this much more. But the Chrises Kresser & Masterjohn are:
                      Episode 11 – Chris Masterjohn on cholesterol & heart disease (Part 1) (part 1 of 3, just follow the links)

                      As is Peter Attia, if you want to read a 9-part (so far) magnum opus that will make you understand cholesterol so well your doctor will call you for advice (ha, as if they listened!)
                      The straight dope on cholesterol
                      THANKS so much! I'm off to do some reading. As you might imagine, the doc dismissed any conversation about PUFAs from fish oils contributing to the lab results. As a matter of fact, we requested the NMR; doc didn't even know what it was.
                      Starting Weight: 197.5
                      Current Weight: 123
                      Far healthier!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                        Not really. I'm surprised at how much effort you put into counter-primal evangelism.
                        The only thing about primal i dispute that that it needs to be inherently low carb. That and the ridiculous fanatical fear of any non primal approved foods. Funny you say im being evangelical but from where i sit, some of you act like this is less of a diet and more of a religion.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                          Maybe my opinion is skewed, but I think the omega 3:6 ratio is complete BS and meaningless. The issue in my opinion is that the SAD just contains far too much rancid omega 6 from industrial seed oils, grains and legumes. There is some disconnect where people think omega 3 and omega 6 are essential and you'll die without them. That's absolutely stupid because of how that came about. It was based on some study where animals were fed fully hydrogenated oils so all the unsaturates were removed and the animals died. No kidding - there are no fully hydrogenated oils in nature and you're not eating real food. Maybe that's the issue?

                          Everything in nature contains fat. Every fat in nature contains some level of saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fat. Eat real food, not processed fats.

                          It's that simple. Don't worry about balancing some omega 3:6 ratio, just eat real food and it'll be fine. Focus on avoiding processed, refined fats because they are unstable. IMO, the issue isn't the ratio but people with high 6:3 ratios simply EAT A LOT OF REFINED SEED OILS! Eating a lot of nuts will skew your 6:3 ratio pretty highly, but IMO a 10:1 ratio that's due to a high consumption of poultry and nuts is not going to have the same issue as a 10:1 ratio where the foundation of your diet is grains and soybean oil.

                          And that's the issue IMO. Not the ratio, but the intake of oxidized and trans fats. Now you have people popping oxidized fish oil that traveled hundreds of miles in the back of some hot tractor trailer and sat under fluorescent lighting on store shelves for months refined from farmed fish in the name of balancing a ratio...not for me. Just eliminate the bad fats from your diet and you'll be okay.
                          I'm not truly convinced one way or the other about whether the ratio matters, but we are definitely in agreement about the prescription: A diet high in fats from healthy animals and low in fats from processed seed oils.

                          That being said, I think it should be pointed out that you're still probably better off focusing on grass-fed beef and wild-caught fish than chicken or pork, and the general categories of animals, vegetables, squashes and tubers over nuts and seeds, and whole foods over processed manufactured products.

                          Not sure exactly what that means for the OP's LDL question, however. Is it LDL-C that's a problem, LDL-P, ox-LDL, TG:HDL, TC:HDL, or none of the above that we should be worried about? The concensus is that there's no concensus. So we're back to the same prescription. Eat a diet high in fats from healthy animals and low in processed seed oils.
                          The Champagne of Beards

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by janie View Post
                            THANKS so much! I'm off to do some reading. As you might imagine, the doc dismissed any conversation about PUFAs from fish oils contributing to the lab results. As a matter of fact, we requested the NMR; doc didn't even know what it was.
                            Yeah, I had a similar conversation with my Doctor recently. She didn't know the difference between LDL-C and LDL-P, much less that the NMR is the only accurate way to measure the latter. Guess if I'm taking a statin...
                            The Champagne of Beards

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by OldGuy View Post
                              Great article here on this. I'm also a big fan of Udo's Oil, if you have a health food store nearby.
                              I read the article you linked, and this totally freaked me out:

                              Soybean oil alone is now so ubiquitous in fast foods and processed foods that an astounding 20 percent of the calories in the American diet are estimated to come from this single source.
                              The really are out to get us.
                              "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                              B*tch-lite

                              Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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