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  • #46
    I think the insulin resistance in ketosis is just a "temporary" adaptation to the diet. I don't think it contributes at all to insulin resistance *disease*. Too many people come off it to eating carbs again and find their previous metabolic issues gone- even to the point they start eating junk and don't gain weight (for a while, until it screws them up again).

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    • #47
      Ayla, I've skimmed this thread, and my comment is that getting your serum glucose levels normalized can take time. Think of it this way: if it was a long, slow path to insulin resistance, it may be a slow path back to insulin sensitivity.

      When I first started Primal, I was doing VLC during the week, and then just letting myself have carbs on my 20% splurges on weekends. Besides weight loss, I found that a lot of other stuff started moving in the right direction: triglycerides, serum glucose, BP. I didn't start IFing until I felt sugar crashes go away, and now I do IFs not as any regular schedule but because I sometimes just don't feel hungry until noon or late afternoon. It's really about normalizing the swings of blood sugar, and listening to your body.

      I would disagree with the notion to eat when you're not hungry, or to eat past the point of being full. It just seems counterintuitive, and I have never done this since going Primal.

      VLC can be a helpful tool to kickstart weight loss and to get your insulin sensitivity normalized. People who talk about adding carbs back and refeeds may be more physically active or may be starting from a better baseline insulin sensitivity. The bottom line is that you have to find what works for you, to satisfy your hunger, provide energy, and bring the results you want to see. I know that there are times I feel the physical need to go VLC when diet has gone off course a bit; I consider it a tuneup. If I plan on doing a longer run, or after I've done some good sweaty physical exertion, I think nothing of loading up on carbs.

      Just keep it simple. Eat good food, 2-3 times per day, don't deprive or overeat. As your weight and various tests normalize, recalibrate the macros as you see fit.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
        So you suggest I make myself eat even when not hungry?
        This is not something I want to do as a former binger
        Originally posted by AngryKiwi47 View Post
        Then eat more calorie dense meals.
        Ayla, drop the bulletproof coffee. It's not doing you any favors. That is a calorie dense meal but it's not a nutrient dense meal. I think AngryKiwi meant nutrient dense.

        When you are hungry, make yourself dinner. Have dinner for breakfast, for lunch and for dinner. Dinner is a generous portion of meat, a generous portion of vegetables and if you like, one of those meals can have a small portion of starch such as half a sweet potato. If you are hungry between these meals, make bigger servings.

        This will help you get over the binging and give you the nutrition your body needs. Eventually you'll probably think ugh, this is too much and have a smaller meal. And maybe once in a while you'll be like oh man, I'm so hungry but I'm eating so much already. Don't worry about it. Have a bigger potato or something.

        Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
        I don't do much in the way of workouts at the moment.
        If you have insulin resistance your body is stuck in some kind of feedback loop. You should do some exercise to help it get unstuck. It is really easy in our culture to say hey, what can I stick inside me to change everything? Sticking the right things in is only one piece of the puzzle. The other is you need sunlight on your skin and eyes and you need to move your body around, make it do something that is difficult for it right now. If you don't give it stimulus to grow and change, it won't. But if you do, then it goes, hey, I'm still needed here, let's turn on the hormones of youth and growth so we don't die.

        And ignore Zach and the carb pushers. Someday you'll be able to eat a lot of carbs without consequence but you aren't there yet and guys like him are too dumb to understand stuff like that. You don't have to avoid all carbs like the plague or beat yourself up because you say f-it I want a whole potato, maybe two today. But on a day-to-day basis, you should favor the meat and veggies over everything else.
        Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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        • #49
          Just like Otzi, i was pre-diabetic during the height of my low carb days and cured it on a diet of high carb.

          Just went back and looked theough my test results, first one was after 2 years low carb, and 9 days of almost complete carnivory. Second was just a month ago, around 60-70% carb intake for almost a year. Both were fasted 12 hours. Tests were a little less then 2 years apart.

          Test 1 -Glucose: 130
          Test 2 -Glucose: 97

          "Current ADA criteria are
          Normal: 70-99 mg/dL
          Impaired Fasting Glucose: 100-125 mg/dL
          Diabetes Mellitus: at or above 126 mg/dL
          The diagnosis of diabetes must be confirmed on a subsequent
          day by measuring FPG, 2-hr PG or random plasma glucose (if
          symptoms are present)."


          Just a snapshot i know and it doesnt really prove much, just my personal experience and it shows that insulin resistance may not just be temporary on low carb. It also shows that high carb alone does not cause diabetes. By the way i gzve up low carb the day after that first test, came back for a diabetes test a month later and was just under the diabetes range so they just told me to eat better, exercise more. I didnt mention to them i exercised and ate perfect paleo throughout that.

          I am even higher carb and lower protein now and i have no doubt my numbers would be even better, i no longer get crashes, inflammation or sleep issues that i used to have.

          Other numbers that improved during that time are Co2, TSH, sed rate, test.

          Comment


          • #50
            +1 to what SB said. The feedback loop idea is right on, and as someone who is rather lazy about exercise my preferred way to bust out was to take up jogging for short distances. (I do occasional weights and body weight exercises, but am terribly un-disciplined!) There's something immediately fulfilling to me when I have a nice 3-mile run, the core feels tighter, energy is better, my face looks younger - my wife literally says she can see it in my face when I have a good run. We did a 2-miler last Saturday because it was only 20F outside, but it definitely helps me to reset the craving for bad foods for some reason. But everyone will have their preferred activity.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Zach View Post
              Just like Otzi, i was pre-diabetic during the height of my low carb days and cured it on a diet of high carb.

              Just went back and looked theough my test results, first one was after 2 years low carb, and 9 days of almost complete carnivory. Second was just a month ago, around 60-70% carb intake for almost a year. Both were fasted 12 hours. Tests were a little less then 2 years apart.

              Test 1 -Glucose: 130
              Test 2 -Glucose: 97

              "Current ADA criteria are
              Normal: 70-99 mg/dL
              Impaired Fasting Glucose: 100-125 mg/dL
              Diabetes Mellitus: at or above 126 mg/dL
              The diagnosis of diabetes must be confirmed on a subsequent
              day by measuring FPG, 2-hr PG or random plasma glucose (if
              symptoms are present)."


              Just a snapshot i know and it doesnt really prove much, just my personal experience and it shows that insulin resistance may not just be temporary on low carb. It also shows that high carb alone does not cause diabetes. By the way i gzve up low carb the day after that first test, came back for a diabetes test a month later and was just under the diabetes range so they just told me to eat better, exercise more. I didnt mention to them i exercised and ate perfect paleo throughout that.

              I am even higher carb and lower protein now and i have no doubt my numbers would be even better, i no longer get crashes, inflammation or sleep issues that i used to have.

              Other numbers that improved during that time are Co2, TSH, sed rate, test.
              I'd have to say stories like this are the exception. People overwhelmingly improve their blood sugar numbers on low carb, at least from what I have seen.
              Last edited by whitebear; 02-07-2013, 09:08 AM.

              Comment


              • #52
                Do you know what it was prior to going primal?

                The bottom line is aside from what the carb cure's all crew have posted here, the reality is low carb is the solution for many with insulin resistance issues. I am one of them and fasting went from 140 to normal on low carb. That kind of story is seen countless times on diabetes forums etc. So while I guess it's possible given that everyone's body reacts differently to diet, I find it pretty unlikely that low carb is the culprit here.

                Request an A1C test if they haven't already done that.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Zach View Post
                  Its funny that all of you need to remind her that im the troll just because i am giving her an answer she doesnt want to hear but she knows is right.

                  Dont worry, im well aware you wont listen to me, Ayla. Just remember this in a few months when your health is much worse and you are in a binge. PM me if you ever want some help.
                  You probably shd.n't post your irresponsible nonsense publicly and you realize it too. You are dangerous.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Terry H View Post
                    You probably shd.n't post your irresponsible nonsense publicly and you realize it too. You are dangerous.
                    Haha, no you are just completely duped and misinformed.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Consider not having the coffee before your next blood test. Coffee can throw people's blood sugar off. Not all people but some. It also can raise cholesterol in some people, particularly unfiltered coffee like espresso.
                      High Weight: 225
                      Weight at start of Primal: 189
                      Current Weight: 174
                      Goal Weight: 130

                      Primal Start Date: 11/26/2012

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by EagleRiverDee View Post
                        Consider not having the coffee before your next blood test. Coffee can throw people's blood sugar off. Not all people but some. It also can raise cholesterol in some people, particularly unfiltered coffee like espresso.
                        The blood sugar effects of coffee seem to be mostly noticeable in conjunction with a meal, particularly a high carb one. As long as she is well and fasted before the test I doubt one cup of coffee is going to have much effect on her levels. Now, if she's having like three cups before she goes in, THEN the effects might be more noticeable even in the fasted state and I might recommend that she drop down a bit.
                        "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
                          So following on from my thread this morning, i went to the Dr, and my blood sugar level was 8.4 (he said over 6.9 was high) this was 6 hours after only a BP coffee.

                          I am going back tomorrow for the fasting glucose test to get a definitive answer.

                          My question is that is this because of how I treated my body in the past? Binge/high carb/low fat/losing weight cycle, even though I have had 4 months straight primal no cheats?

                          Surely a lack of sugar doesn't cause this?
                          Ayla, I would want more testing than random and/or fasting blood sugar levels, especially before starting meds. In addition to fasting BGL you might want to have HbA1c and fasting insulin levels checked.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            There is a lot of misconception when it comes to glucose and insulin. There is an easy way to lay your mind to rest, however. Go out and buy a $25 home glucose tester, like an Ultra Mini OneTouch and 50 test strips ($50). You now have the equipment to check FBG and to do a couple 3 hour oral glucose tolerance tests just like at the doctors.

                            I've heard these can be not very accurate, but i have checked my glucose minutes before an actual lab draw and the results were within 1 mg/dl. You aren't really that worried about 100% accuracy as much as trending, anyhow.

                            To do a 2 or 3 hour tolerance test, simply test your FBG, then eat a big potato with no butter or anything else. Check your glucose every 15 minutes for 3 hours and plot it out. Keep this as your baseline, and compare future testing against it.

                            If you ever see a reading that goes above 200 and stays there for more than 15 minutes, you definitely have a problem. If you see a reading of 200 which quickly falls to 120 in the next 15 minutes, then 100 or so, you are fine. Not perfect, but not diabetic. A true diabetic will see a spike in the 200-600 range that stays that high for several hours--that is worrisome!

                            If you see response at all, you have some degree of insulin sensitivity.

                            If you have high morning FBG, check it periodically throughout the day, and see where your range is. If your blood glucose never, ever falls below 120, you have a problem.

                            If you think you have a problem, ask your doctor for an HbA1C test, this tests your glucose over a period of 6 weeks and is very accurate.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I wd. say if your doctor thinks there is a problem, get the HbA1c test immediately as he/she will suggest and prioritize getting the BG level w/in an acceptable range.Be quick in doing this and skip the self-hacks and the "tweaks" that people w/o metabolic issues are doing. The PB is on its own bat a great tool.You need to find out if any other tools are necessary at this point in time-exercise, medication, etc. We don't want this to become chronic,right? Good luck!
                              Last edited by Terry H; 02-07-2013, 12:53 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                                Ayla, drop the bulletproof coffee. It's not doing you any favors. That is a calorie dense meal but it's not a nutrient dense meal. I think AngryKiwi meant nutrient dense.

                                When you are hungry, make yourself dinner. Have dinner for breakfast, for lunch and for dinner. Dinner is a generous portion of meat, a generous portion of vegetables and if you like, one of those meals can have a small portion of starch such as half a sweet potato. If you are hungry between these meals, make bigger servings.

                                This will help you get over the binging and give you the nutrition your body needs. Eventually you'll probably think ugh, this is too much and have a smaller meal. And maybe once in a while you'll be like oh man, I'm so hungry but I'm eating so much already. Don't worry about it. Have a bigger potato or something.



                                If you have insulin resistance your body is stuck in some kind of feedback loop. You should do some exercise to help it get unstuck. It is really easy in our culture to say hey, what can I stick inside me to change everything? Sticking the right things in is only one piece of the puzzle. The other is you need sunlight on your skin and eyes and you need to move your body around, make it do something that is difficult for it right now. If you don't give it stimulus to grow and change, it won't. But if you do, then it goes, hey, I'm still needed here, let's turn on the hormones of youth and growth so we don't die.

                                And ignore Zach and the carb pushers. Someday you'll be able to eat a lot of carbs without consequence but you aren't there yet and guys like him are too dumb to understand stuff like that. You don't have to avoid all carbs like the plague or beat yourself up because you say f-it I want a whole potato, maybe two today. But on a day-to-day basis, you should favor the meat and veggies over everything else.
                                Thanks for this advice. I know I need to ditch the coffee, so working on that from today.
                                I had slacked off on walking 4-5 km every day but I am doing it now.

                                Originally posted by joe2.0 View Post
                                Do you know what it was prior to going primal?

                                The bottom line is aside from what the carb cure's all crew have posted here, the reality is low carb is the solution for many with insulin resistance issues. I am one of them and fasting went from 140 to normal on low carb. That kind of story is seen countless times on diabetes forums etc. So while I guess it's possible given that everyone's body reacts differently to diet, I find it pretty unlikely that low carb is the culprit here.

                                Request an A1C test if they haven't already done that.
                                I had gestational diabetes with my oldest son (5 now) which ended up being diet controlled. But that is hardly surprising since before I got tested (2 hour GTT) I was eating mcdonalds everyday. After he was born I had to repeat this test and all was normal I did not improve the way I ate for another 3 years after this though, so I probably did more damage.

                                I am undecided about getting the test done today.
                                I think SBhikes is right about what I need to do. And I think I need to give it more time.
                                I feel 100% fine. Just been stressing about losing weight too slowly that is all.
                                If I had not weighed myself this week I would have felt like I had lost weight, well I did, my mid section feels smaller.
                                I know the other answer is to stay away from the scales, it does me no favours.
                                My waist measurement is going down and that is more important than the scales.

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