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Eat More Fat! The Nutritional Ketosis Challenge continues...

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  • Eat More Fat! The Nutritional Ketosis Challenge continues...

    We just completed a very successful January 2013 challenge to “Eat More Fat.” (The plan is also called Low Carb-High Fat or Ketogenic.) This thread is for EMF challengers who plan to continue with this way of eating and new people who would like to give it a try. The challenge thread can be found here:

    The original idea for EMF on MDA came from a thread by Paleobird about her own experiments in Nutritional Ketosis.

    What is Nutritional Ketosis? Physiologically it means having a serum ketone level of .5mmol to 5.0mmol as measured by a blood ketone monitor. To people on MDA it means being “fat adapted”.

    Why try to reach Nutritional Ketosis? This is an extreme version of Primal eating for those who have not seen great or continued success on the basic Primal program. Some follow this woe for medical reasons others for weight loss benefits. Hard losers with PCOS etc., women in menopause, people with seizure disorders and binge disorders often have success with this plan. ***If you are new to Primal Blueprint, please follow the information in the book first for at least 6 weeks before doing anything else.

    ***Start Here!***
    Setting up a Macro Plan The goal is to reach a 70% plus Fat level while keeping Carbs below 50 and Protein at a moderate level. Use this formula to get started:
    From the work of Dr Jan Kwasniewski author of The Optimal Diet.
    Take your height in centimeters and subtract 100. This is your goal weight in kilograms.
    Goal weight in kilos plus/minus 10% = range for protein grams/day
    Goal weight in kilos divided by 2 = upper end for carb grams/day
    The rest of your diet is fat. Goal weight in kilos x anywhere from 2.5 to 3.5 depending on your weight goals (lower to lose, higher to gain)

    Notes 1)Some start fat at 2x goal wt. due to the difficulty of getting in so much fat. 2)Some feel the goal weight generated by this formula is too high. One could set a goal weight at the lower end of their healthy weight range. If in pounds divide by 2.2. That would be your Goal wt. in kilos. Use that weight to figure your macros by the formula. This would be your "Hot Stuff in a Swimsuit" (HSIS) weight.

    ***More Advanced info later macro recalculation***
    BMR -Do calories matter? Most of our N=1 self experiments have led us to conclude that in some ways for some people calories Do matter. In case you are interested in calculating your body’s Daily Caloric Needs, here is a Basal Metabolic Rate calculator that includes information on how to add activity with the Harris Benedict Equation. BMR is the calories your body would burn if you never moved a muscle all day long (coma calorie burn).
    BMR Calculator
    Harris Benedict multipliersUse these to add your activity to your BMR.
    To determine your total daily calorie needs, multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:
    •If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
    •If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
    •If you are moderately active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
    •If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
    •If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9
    Once you know your Daily Caloric Needs, you can use it to decide you optimal calorie level. Mine, for example is around 2400, so I aim to eat about 1900 cals per day.

    Other Helpful Stuff

    My Fitness Pal: Many of us on the thread track our food on this site. By “friending” each other, we are able to see other people’s food diaries. There is also a BMR calculator (see above). Don't forget to use the Harris Benedict multipliers above to get your true daily calorie burn.
    Free Calorie Counter, Diet & Exercise Journal |

    LCHF Recipe Group: Here is the link to our Recipe group.

    Electrolyte Imbalance: When first starting an NK program, the body flushes a lot of fluid. This often leads to the feeling extreme exhaustion or lethargy that is referred to as carb flu. One trick for improving these symptoms is to drink 1-2 cups of commercial bouillon per day. Yes, it has MSG and other nasty stuff, but the dosage is low and it helps some people push through the rough first weeks. You may also have success with homemade salted bone broth or even store bought canned broth. However, you will have to add a lot of salt to your broth to reach the sodium level of one small cube of bouillon. 1000mg of table salt is not equal to 1000 mg of sodium.

    Further Reading: Some of our favorite NK experts:
    Jeff Volek, Stephen Phinney The Art and Science of Low Carb Living
    Dr Peter Attia The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D. The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D.
    Jimmy Moore Jimmy Moore's Livin' La Vida Low Carb Blog

    ***This post will act as a living document of compiled information on Nutritional Ketosis. Please PM me if you feel something should be added.

    ***One request. This is meant to be an encouragement thread for people who are following this plan. It is okay to disagree with the concept of nutritional ketosis, just keep it friendly. Each of us has the right to follow our own n=1 experiment without harassment.
    Last edited by Pebbles67; 03-20-2013, 08:07 AM.
    Primal since 9/24/2010
    "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

    Created by - Free Weight Loss Tools
    MFP username: MDAPebbles67

  • #2
    Hi gang,
    I just wanted to recap my first month.

    I am doing this plan to control a binge eating disorder that has interfered with reaching my health goals and, of course, to lose weight.

    In January I lost 18.3 pounds and 16 inches.
    I had only 3 binge days out of 31. A new record!

    February Goals
    Less than 3 binge days.
    Weigh & Measure only 1x / week
    Listen to my body (rest, exercise, food etc.)

    My Macros
    Goal: 77kg
    Calories 1850
    154g fat (80%)
    69g protein (15%)
    23 max (5%)
    These are slightly changed from the formula to get the fat higher. My N=1.

    Best Advice
    Drink the bouillon! It (probably) won't kill you and it will help you stay the course.
    Track! It doesn't have to be forever.
    Exercise! It makes you feel great and tightens stuff up.
    Sleep! Figure out what is wrong and fix it. I added 5htp to my evening routine and started getting up half an hour later.
    BMR I have found it helpful to know my average day burn rate and to stay 20% below that. On heavy exercise days it may be as much as 40% below, but not often as eating too few calories can be a problem for me.
    Last edited by Pebbles67; 02-01-2013, 08:06 AM.
    Primal since 9/24/2010
    "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

    Created by - Free Weight Loss Tools
    MFP username: MDAPebbles67


    • #3
      I'll post my January stats here.

      Down 13 pounds from 216 to 203. Had only 4 days off plan(2 of which were planned). I have either dropped a dress size or am on the verge of dropping a dress size. Hair and nails are getting healthier as is skin. All in all, I am more energetic, feel healthier and have found that when I am stressed, I don't feel nearly as stressed as I normally would. I'm also only drinking coffee just for the taste, not for the caffeine.


      • #4
        This might be a silly question, if like say you cook a pot of soup, how do you go about figuring your ratios of fat/protein/carbs per serving? Is there an easier way of doing it than figuring out the equivalent of the entire batch and then dividing by number of servings?


        • #5
          Betty, majority of us use My Fitness Pal and you can input recipes and it will give you per serving macros.


          • #6
            Awesome! I love


            • #7
              Yeah! Hello everyone continuing on the journey!

              January Successes
              So, I have sworn off the scale and measuring again until March 3rd, that gives my body 6 weeks to get with the program. But cheers to non-scale victories.

              Most important one...Sleep has improved dramatically!
              Energy slowly improving.
              Shoes are looser (weird I know)
              Rings spinning like crazy
              An elastic banded skirt, was gapping in the back.
              I am getting more things done (and to DH's delight, managing to keep the kitchen very clean)
              I have a heightened PMA (Positive Mental Attitude) as I finally feel like I have found an answer I can not only live with for the rest of my life, but actually enjoy!

              February (and beyond) Goals:
              -Get to 10,000 steps a day. Once I get my treadmill, I will record these as part of my daily stats.
              -Tabata 1x a week (for now)
              -Calories under 1700
              -Carbs under 30g
              -Net Carbs half of carbs (I plan for half of my carbs to be fiber)
              -Fat stay close to 140g
              -Protein under 75g

              My tips for success:

              -set your goals, food wise and life wise (make them measurable and UNDER YOUR CONTROL, you cannot control the scale you can only control the behaviors that should result in a loss of fat)
              -track everything you eat (at least in the beginning) if you don't know what you eat how do you know what is working
              -I have the best days when I divide my macros fairly evenly among the number of times I plan to eat, and if I pre-track (track what I plan to eat and adjust it to fit my macros before I put it into my mouth!)

              Good Luck everyone, glad you are here!
              "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."

              My journal:

              My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.


              • #8
                Like this kinda fresh start with a new thread! I'm still at 161.4 this morning, kinda surprising as I feel bloated.

                Onward! *Raises sword all corny like*


                • #9
                  Can I join please? I will have to work out my percentages, but I need some form of structure as I have been taking primal eating to the extreme


                  • #10
                    Welcome shrinkinglo! Let us know how we can help.
                    Primal since 9/24/2010
                    "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

                    Created by - Free Weight Loss Tools
                    MFP username: MDAPebbles67


                    • #11
                      I've been reading the old thread for a while and was waiting for the new one to join in!

                      I spent a while in college tracking my calorie consumption in a spreadsheet with great success (100+ lbs lost), and I realized it might be helpful for me to start doing it again, now that I've been Primal for most of the last 2 years without much recent weight loss. Eating lower-calorie, low-carb, and high-protein made me feel pretty terrible, though, which is when I happened to see the original EMF thread. I lowered my protein a bit, added some fat, and felt better on the same calories! So I think I'm going to try making this a thing.

                      I might track my macros once or twice, but since I can't bring myself to stick with online tracking sites (Excel all the way for me), I'm going to keep it simple: keep tracking my calories (most of the time), eat little starch or fruit (used to this already), lower my protein portions to approximately the right range, and eyeball that most of my calories are coming from fat.

                      I'm also exercising way more than I was when I was working on apps all last fall and early-winter. Yay!

                      I'm not a very active poster, but I'll post an update on how this goes...
                      23, F, 5'5" and ~140lbs
                      My mostly-dormant journal


                      • #12
                        Welcome Kotato! Periodic updates will be great.
                        Primal since 9/24/2010
                        "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

                        Created by - Free Weight Loss Tools
                        MFP username: MDAPebbles67


                        • #13
                          Thanks pebbles - what I thought I would do is complete a weeks worth of food diary on fitnesspal and then link it and ask some advice.

                          That way I will know I am heading in the right direction.

                          But to give an example today I had:

                          British Mild Cheese, 40g
                          3 eggs
                          Olive Oil - Extra Virgin 4 tablespoons


                          Chicken Leg Quarter W/ Skin,
                          Cabbage - Savoy, raw, 200g
                          Salted English Butter, 60g

                          That equated to roughly:

                          Carbs / Day 21 g
                          Fat / Day 142 g
                          Protein / Day 85 g


                          • #14
                            January EMF Results -11 lbs
                            SW: 233.8
                            CW: 222.8

                            February EMF Goals -lose 8-10 lbs
                            * hit macros (reduce protein)
                            * exercise for stress relief
                            * full month of February compliance with WOE
                            My journal:


                            • #15
                              Looks pretty good, Shrinkinglo, depending on your calorie needs.