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Eat More Fat! The Nutritional Ketosis Challenge continues...

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  • About being nearly ZC, I second what Julie (aka InSearchOfAbs) said about the Dirty Carnivore site. They are people who embrace being a carnivore but don't get fanatical about it. (Unlike the Zeroing in on Health site where there are some serious wingnuts).

    I have been eating nearly all my calories from animal products for quite a while now and I find the greatest thing about it is that it makes counting carb grams a non issue.

    It really is interesting when you change your perception of veggies from being this indispensable thing without which health is not possible to being something that can enhance the flavor of the meal (the meat) or serve as a garnish or condiment but is not really that central to your eating.

    After not eating much in the way of veggies for a while, my digestive system is the happiest it has ever been. And when I did a couple of high veggie days in a row (vegetarian friends visiting) I felt all plugged up and bloated. I still eat a salad if it comes with a dinner out or a friend has prepared it but my big salad bowl at home which used to be in daily use doesn't get much love these days.

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    • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      About being nearly ZC, I second what Julie (aka InSearchOfAbs) said about the Dirty Carnivore site. They are people who embrace being a carnivore but don't get fanatical about it. (Unlike the Zeroing in on Health site where there are some serious wingnuts).

      I have been eating nearly all my calories from animal products for quite a while now and I find the greatest thing about it is that it makes counting carb grams a non issue.

      It really is interesting when you change your perception of veggies from being this indispensable thing without which health is not possible to being something that can enhance the flavor of the meal (the meat) or serve as a garnish or condiment but is not really that central to your eating.

      After not eating much in the way of veggies for a while, my digestive system is the happiest it has ever been. And when I did a couple of high veggie days in a row (vegetarian friends visiting) I felt all plugged up and bloated. I still eat a salad if it comes with a dinner out or a friend has prepared it but my big salad bowl at home which used to be in daily use doesn't get much love these days.
      Paleobird...can you share what your typical diet looks like in a day?

      I'm am on the fence...Yesterday I tried to eat more fat 80 grams and less protein 70 grams while carbs sat around 20grams. I know I should of eaten more fat because I was hungry last night.

      I am trying to see if I can make a difference in my body doing things this way...just seems strange to eat a bunch of fat but I will give it a go...

      So far I ate a few bites of sausage this morning. 1 cup of coffee with tb. of cream.

      2" square of cocoa crack made with CO

      2 cups of salad mixed with a few olives, chopped tomato, little avocado, oil dressing and 2 eggs with several tablespoons of majo and a little mustard....


      I just ate the above but still feeling hungry...geeze, what gives.
      Last edited by tinacristina; 06-04-2013, 02:44 PM.

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      • Originally posted by tinacristina View Post
        Paleobird...can you share what your typical diet looks like in a day?

        I'm am on the fence...Yesterday I tried to eat more fat 80 grams and less protein 70 gras while carbs sat around 20grams. I know I should of eatten more fat because I was hungry last night. When I eat aLOT of protein I have not fight...but I do like my salads..so it's back to the higher fat/low carb...I am trying to see if I can make a difference in my body...I seem to feel more like I retain water and not losing...but I am going to give this a go...
        So far I ate a few bites of sausage this morning. 1 cup of coffee with cream.
        2" square of cocoa crack made with CO
        Salad with a few olives, little avocado, oil dressing and 2 eggs (salad) with several tablespoons of majo and a little mustard....
        I just ate the above but still feeling hungry...geeze, what gives.
        Sure. Most days I start out with a pot of either rooibos tea or Teeccino herbal coffee and add liberal splashes of Aroy-D coconut cream to each cup. This keeps me happy until my one main meal at dinner. Sometimes I will also have a glass of kefir in the mornings, it varies.

        Main dinner meal is a chunk of animal protein with veggies just enough for flavor.

        Examples: Beef curry including mushrooms, onions and garlic
        A lox omelet with creme fresh and some purple onion and capers inside
        A steak with a mushroom and onion reduction sauce over it
        A 1 lb petburger (USWM) with some Mexican salsa on top
        A sashimi platter of salmon, ahi, salmon roe, coconut aminos and wasabi with maybe a seaweed salad on the side
        Sometimes I have a "deli dinner" of say a hunk of cheese, a hunk of USWM liverwurst, some olives, some sundried tomatoes

        Things like slices of avocado and a few cherry tomatoes make a nice garnish on the side of anything.

        If I'm feeling seafoody I make a package of Sea Tangle kelp noodles boiled in a can of clam juice until soft and the juice reduced. Then add several cans of seafood such as smoked oysters, octopus, clams and mix up with some cream (coconut cream works too) and some grated parmesan. Seafood alfredo.

        Speaking of which I do eat a lot of fish in addition to the red meat. I think a balance is important there. I don't eat pork or chicken but I do eat game birds such as duck and wild boar when I can get it.

        My go-to snacks : SeaSnax toasted seaweed.
        cocoa butter chips
        100% bakers chocolate
        A chunk of raw milk cheese
        USWM beef sticks (I could live off of those)

        I'll usually have a little snack in the evening after dinner while watching TV or whatever but I don't snack during the day.

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        • That sounds soooooo goooooood. Mmmm, ideas...
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          • Most of the non animal matter I eat is actually fruit. None is strictly speaking a vegetable.

            Sea veggies (technically algae)
            Mushrooms (fungi)
            tomatoes (a fruit)
            olives (ditto)
            cucumber (ditto)
            bell peppers (ditto)
            avocados (ditto)
            coconut products (technically the seed of a fruit)
            Onions (a bulb)
            Garlic (a bulb)

            Other than for geeking out purposes, the only reason this matters is because it is vegetables which have the higher levels of anti-nutrients defenses in them. Fruit is something the plant offers up for your consumption in order to disperse the seeds.

            This is an interesting article by Dr Ede about vegetables. Vegetables Diagnosis: Diet

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            • Originally posted by RichardCook
              Interested to visit a daily meal plan from a few of you working with 60-80% daily fat. Not sure how you execute this, while keeping protein low, without drinking oil or merely spooning enormous scoops of butter in your mouth.
              Best Protein Powder For Fat Loss | Warrior Whey
              Hehe, I am not super high fat / ketogenic but you can try this:

              - get a lot of dry shredded coconut. The one I buy contains 66% fat, that's a lot! Never mind the carbs or proteins (about 1/10 the amount of fat).
              - place about 400g of the dried coconut into a powerful blender (Vitamix)
              - add 2 bananas and 2tsp vanilla extract, or ditch the bananas and use unsweetened chocolate instead
              - add a little bit of sweetener if you want, especially if you used unsweetened chocolate
              - add maybe 3-4 Tbsp of melted coconut oil

              Blend for a few minutes until you get a homogenous dough-like thingy. Put it in the fridge for a good 24 hours or until the sat fat hardens enough. You will get some sort of nougat like thing that you can stuff yourself with without realizing that you probably went overboard with your daily Cal amount ...

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              • Originally posted by dkJames View Post
                Hehe, I am not super high fat / ketogenic but you can try this:

                - get a lot of dry shredded coconut. The one I buy contains 66% fat, that's a lot! Never mind the carbs or proteins (about 1/10 the amount of fat).
                - place about 400g of the dried coconut into a powerful blender (Vitamix)
                - add 2 bananas and 2tsp vanilla extract, or ditch the bananas and use unsweetened chocolate instead
                - add a little bit of sweetener if you want, especially if you used unsweetened chocolate
                - add maybe 3-4 Tbsp of melted coconut oil

                Blend for a few minutes until you get a homogenous dough-like thingy. Put it in the fridge for a good 24 hours or until the sat fat hardens enough. You will get some sort of nougat like thing that you can stuff yourself with without realizing that you probably went overboard with your daily Cal amount ...
                James, that is the least ketogenic snack I have ever seen-especially with bananas! LOL!

                Try this (from Peter at Hyperlipid):
                Chocolate butter:One 100gm chocolate bar (85% or 90%), One 250gm block of economy butter, 45ml double cream, 15 or 30ml honey and some vanilla. Melt, pour in to an ice cube tray, freeze, pop out of tray while frozen, keep in fridge until consumed, not very long...
                Last edited by Dragonfly; 06-07-2013, 09:53 AM.
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                • OMG, Dragonfly, that sounds absolutely amazing, I must try it!
                  Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost. - Neil Gaiman




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                  • Hi all - I've been reading through this thread every spare minute since Monday and I'm a little more than halfway through. I "found" primal in January of this year after looking for help with severe, severe bloating...went to tons of docs and nothing is "wrong" but I am a relative lean person with a 6 month pg belly...long story short...started SCD diet, then went to atkins, started reading many books...lyle macdonald, PP, new atkins...PB and that seemed the most livable and made the most sense...gained 7 lbs since going primal and starting having binge episodes which I have never experienced prior and frankly scared the s out of me...tried to do keto in Feb/March but i would do well for 2-3 days then whammo, I'd crazy overeat...sometimes primally and on a few occasions total carb and sugar fest which would lead to nausea and heart palp...I think I have a real problem with digesting carbs and when I looked at the fodmaps chart, I realized that all the veggies I ate were on the wrong side...so I decided to go back to keto and then slowly, one at a time introduce the fodmaps veggies on the low side...well 3 days in, my stomach is completely flat and I'm down 2.5 lbs...just having protein, kg butter, and romaine hearts and cukes

                    I think when I was doing keto before I was in that low carb limbo thing because I realize now from reading this blog that my protein was too high...I think I was stuck in the old atkins mentality of eat all the meat you want lol...I thought I needed to eat = amonts of protein and fat grams....now I see it is actually a 2 to 1 ratio...so I'm thinking that the excess protein converted to glucose and that ultimately let to the 2-3 day overeating cycle...we'll see...

                    So now my aim is to eat U1200 cal, 100g fat 50g protein and 15-20g carbs...have hit that give or take a few grams for the past 3 days...I am also fasting until 2ish and having lunch and dinner...so far so good but I am hoping to make it a week without a whamo...and add to that

                    Run or bike 2-3 days a week, lift weights 2-3 days a week...try to walk at lunch 1-2 days a week...take the Calton Nutrition daily vitamin supplement am and pm and fish oil, probiotics and digestive enzymes...42 yo female


                    Goals:

                    1. No more binging...but going to make this a week to week goal...so far 3 days down
                    2. lose those 7lbs and 4% bf that I gained since starting pb
                    3. Find my bloating triggers

                    A couple of questions

                    1. If I feel hungry or unsatisfied is it better to go over macros in fat or protein?
                    2. On days I lift weights should I increase calories or is it ok to stay at regular level?
                    3. If I don't feel super hungry for dinner should I skip it or is that likely to make me ravenous the next day? It only happened the 1st day that I didn't feel hunger but I ate the meal anyway because i was afraid I would go crazy the next day...but would appreciate others thoughts on this
                    4. I eat little pinches of sea salt through the fast and drink mineral water...does bone broth break the fast (how many calories) and does it have to be gf bones bc that might be tough to come by...
                    5. What is the cheapest online US source of gf meat?

                    Thanks all and I'm glad I finally found this thread and now I have the ratios right I'm hoping to be a nk success story.

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                    • Hi and welcome,

                      1. Fat then protein.
                      2. I think your cals may be too low for heavy exercise days. If you end up binging, you'll know.
                      3. I found that getting in all my meals helped lessen the binges. Others here will tell you not to eat when not hungry. Self experimentation is key.
                      4. Some believe that any calories break the fast. I now IF 2 days a week until dinner. I have zero calories until then. It is better that way for me.
                      5. No idea.

                      Good Luck!
                      Primal since 9/24/2010
                      "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

                      Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
                      MFP username: MDAPebbles67

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                      • Aprilmomma~
                        1. Agree with Pebbles!
                        2. Ditto
                        3. By trusting my hunger signals, I am eating far less, without feeling deprived/binging.
                        4. My understanding is that if you eat or drink fat only, your body can't tell the difference between body fat or food fat. So fat loss will be slightly decreased, but you will still get all the other benefits of fasting. So some heavy cream in tea or coffee will be fine.
                        Search for pklopp's brilliant intermittent fasting primer on the forum for more details.
                        5. Check out Eat Wild for GF meat producers nearby. I have found that our local farms are a lot cheaper than online. If that doesn't work for you, check out Slankers.

                        Oh, and get your Vitamin D level checked. Sun/supplement to 50-60 ng/ml to help with blood sugar control/fat loss. Also make sure you get sufficient Magnesium!
                        Last edited by Dragonfly; 06-08-2013, 06:46 AM.
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                        • If you can't find gf bones or bone broth, I've found an organic brand of broth (that is delicious) to get your salt: Rapunzel. Sooo good. And if I don't have enough salt I get light-headed or woozy.
                          My Leptin Reset Journey


                          Current BF%: 35
                          Goal BF%: 20-23

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                          • (Posted on wrong thread...)
                            My Leptin Reset Journey


                            Current BF%: 35
                            Goal BF%: 20-23

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                            • I think I have finally found my n=1!!! After 6 months of strugglng and watching the scale only go up...I think I have finally found the answer...primal, fodmaps, NK done correctly and SUN...I have been eating vlc for a while...veggies only, but was eating a 10-12oz steak or portion of meat for dinner...now that I rebalanced my macros and realized that NK means about 70-80% fat...and 4-5 oz protein for my 2 meals or 4 eggs, I think I have found the magic...3lb loss in 4 days, decreased appetite and decent energy...

                              I definitely think I was deficient in vitamin d because I was in CO for a long weekend 2 weeks ago and got a lot of sun and haveLt had a binge urge since...prior I was overeating every 2-3 days...since I've only done NK for 4 days I know that the sun must be what took those urges away...I am trying to spend 20-30 minutes in the sun every day that I can...

                              It feels so good to not have to obsess on what Im eating, my weight etc. For months I`ve been on mda and other sites every spare moment trying to find answers and it is sooo liberating now just to go through my day without this constantly in my thoughts! Will still check mda but on a much more limited basis and feel so free to just live life now...I know this pace of weight loss won't continue but to know things are headed in the right direction and that I've finally started to hack my n=1 formula feels great. I'm testing a low fodmaps veggie a day to see what I can have that doesn't cause the severe bloating...but it is just so great to have a flatish, soft stomach again and to feel in control of my appetite!

                              Thanks to whoever started this thread because I finally realize that NK is about fat not protein...and that was key for me to get through my head. Also eating less protein will help with the food budget now that a 10oz grassfed steak is 2 meals instead of 1...$5/dinner is completely reasonable...of course my butter budget just doubled lol

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                              • Yay, aprilmomma!
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