Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Eat More Fat! The Nutritional Ketosis Challenge continues...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Yes the calculations on the first post of this thread are supposed to make things easier for you. It puts you in a fat range of about 70-75%. Once you have your plan well established, you can make changes like lowering fat IF you are not losing.

    It sounds as if you are doing great!
    Primal since 9/24/2010
    "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
    MFP username: MDAPebbles67

    Comment


    • CICO is a big factor. It's just not the only factor.

      If you were to eat too much protein and carbs, and decided to add fat to bring your macros into the target range, you could definitely put yourself into the sort of calorie surplus that would in the long term result in weight gain.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Pebbles67 View Post
        I guess (for me) I believe in both CICO and the quality of calories. I always try to eat below my BMR plus activity, but to be fair, there are people here who overeat calories and still lose weight. I used to lose weight on programs like Weight Watchers too, which are all about CICO, but I was eating wheat and processed foods.

        2.5 years into my Primal journey, I am still trying to find my magic bullet. Even with success on lchf, I still have very bad binge episodes. I am one of those people who was raised by morbidly obese parents. My metabolism is very screwed up and being perimenopausal does not help. Ah, but those are my issues.
        Pebbles, I too have struggled with binges for many, many years. I have just recently found there was a correlation between my depressive episodes and my binges. So my goal is to control the bipolar symptoms, thus controlling the binges. I have gone probably 9-10 days so far with no binges, and I don't have the urge to binge at all now, especially being in ketosis, so I'm quite hopeful. Day six now of ketogenic diet!!!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Pebbles67 View Post
          Yes the calculations on the first post of this thread are supposed to make things easier for you. It puts you in a fat range of about 70-75%. Once you have your plan well established, you can make changes like lowering fat IF you are not losing.

          It sounds as if you are doing great!
          Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
          CICO is a big factor. It's just not the only factor.

          If you were to eat too much protein and carbs, and decided to add fat to bring your macros into the target range, you could definitely put yourself into the sort of calorie surplus that would in the long term result in weight gain.
          Agree ladies, thanks for your reassurance!

          Comment


          • I've been measuring my ketone/glucose levels and checking my weight for the last 10 days, but also started eating a NK WOE about a month ago. My lbs has stayed in the 212 range (+/- 2-3 lbs), but have been pretty stable. I eat approximately 2,200 calories, which is 400 below my BMR. Hmmm, I am confused...not by the suggestions but at what's happening to me. I may need to tweak my fat intake. Day 14 is coming up and I'll see where my measurements are at and whether I continue as is or tweak. Thanks for all the advice.

            On another topic, marissa and pebbles, I have a sister who has been binging for 25+ years. I think it's amazing that this WOE can help. I hope you both the best.

            And marissa, please keep updating on ketosis is working for your bipolar symptoms. I find it interesting as my brother in law had a brother who also suffered from bipolar symptoms.
            Nutritional Ketosis Journal - http://dobnk.blogspot.com/ and http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread83999.html

            Comment


            • dob, are you sure your BMR is that high? Maybe you are eating at maintenance level because your BMR is too high. I dunno, just seems awfully high to me. Could be totally wrong though, lol!!!

              I will keep you updated on the BP symptoms in relation to ketosis. I'm really hoping that it will help me, so far it has really helped a lot. But now I'm on my TOM so feeling a little emotional and angry from that, lmao!!!

              Comment


              • BMRI imagine dob's calculations are correct

                I am a 5' 10" woman who exercises 5 x a week. My average BMR plus activity is 2600. This is not only by calculation, I have a GoWearFit armband that tells me exactly how many calories I am burning.

                Binges Unfortunately I think the cure for binging is a combo of meeting nutritional needs and using supplements to heal and dealing with the emotional stuff too. I am following the recommendations of Julia Ross in "The Diet Cure" for taking amino acids to heal binge issues.

                I don't believe that NK is necessarily my answer. It is a case of when I'm on I'm on, but when I go off. Whew. It is funny that Richard started his thread and I put the link to this thread there in the same week that I was in a mega binge. On 4/21 I was 215.8 and deeply NK. A week later I am nearly 230lbs and emotionally and physically sick. I need to find something that I can stick with that when I go off, I won't have a 15lb backlash

                I have to confess that I am currently two days into a week long experiment of having 75-100 carbs/day. That is up from my norm of 20 or below. I want to encourage you two to keep going on the NK program for a few months. It is great, but right now my goal is to continue the search for a cure to my eating disorder. I may be back to NK next week, who knows?
                Primal since 9/24/2010
                "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

                Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
                MFP username: MDAPebbles67

                Comment


                • Double Post
                  Last edited by Pebbles67; 04-29-2013, 04:19 PM.
                  Primal since 9/24/2010
                  "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

                  Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
                  MFP username: MDAPebbles67

                  Comment


                  • Thanks dkJames & Pebbles.

                    Just in the 3 days since i adjusted my macros down based on a new goal weight of 140 *and* reduced my fat a wee bit (but not below 60%) -- i can say there has been FINALLY movement on the scale in the right direction. Since i jumped on here a week or so ago, i am now down 5 lbs. Which puts me back to lowest weight coming off the HCG diet (2x rounds). I loved HCG but i wanted to learn to eat normal** and loose weight normally since i am now in spitting distance of goal weight. Hence primal & now NK.

                    **learning to eat "normal" is probably the hardest thing there is to do if you have any issues -- emotional eating (me); thyroid problems (me); adrenal fatigue (me); pregnancies (2); SAD brainwashing and poor body images thanks to media (me). I am awed and amazed everyday how much i am learning about chemistry/body fuel - and the microbiology differences from person to person. There is no one right WOE for all...instead it really is a personal journey of trial and error.

                    The thing i noticed the most (and its shocking) is how after loosing 35lbs---and going down 4 dress sizes--I could still look in the mirror and see a fat person. Our minds are so all powerful...I feel that 1/2 of the battle is mental.

                    Comment


                    • Eating normal or having a normal relationship to food is the most important and also one of the hardest things to do in life. I'm pretty sure all of us here have a unhealthy relationship with food and eating in general that stems back to our child selves and most likely our parents food relationships and how they viewed their body. Most of my memories of my mother are of her being down on her body and yo-yo dieting. My first round of dieting was along her side our reward for losing our goal weight was a dozen doughnuts... Sound healthy? I have been on a "diet" of some form since I was 12 yrs old I am 28 now That is 16 yrs of my life I have been food obsessive. Some of the times if feel most "in control" is when I am on point with my eating and am most out of control and depressive when I am in binge mode. I have been paleo since jan 2011 and it has been the only WOE that is a lifestyle and not a "diet" for me. That said... I have had 2 instances that I have fallen off the wagon big time lasting 3 wks for the longest of all 3 times was brought on by being way to restrictive with my eating for long periods of time and ultimately a combo of feeling super deprived and nutritional deficiencies drove me to binge. Since starting NK in feb I have not felt deprived at all if. I don't think any of us who are looking for the right WOE to cure our relationship with food stand alone. It really has to be a mind shift and a self love thing, that is hard too... Yoga along with a primal diet has helped me with a lot with setting the intention to love my self and want to take the best care of me that I know how too. Anyway just thought I would share and hope we are all loving our selves mind, body and spirit.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MarissaLinnea View Post
                        dob, are you sure your BMR is that high? Maybe you are eating at maintenance level because your BMR is too high. I dunno, just seems awfully high to me. Could be totally wrong though, lol!!!

                        I will keep you updated on the BP symptoms in relation to ketosis. I'm really hoping that it will help me, so far it has really helped a lot. But now I'm on my TOM so feeling a little emotional and angry from that, lmao!!!
                        No problem and thanks for checking out if my calcs are correct. I may have not calculated correctly earlier. I'm using a the light activity multiplier of 1.35 and at 20% of my ideal weight, I should be eating closer to 2,000 Kcals. I've read that CICO is not an important factor, so i set my calories at 2,200 originally. However, I maybe one of those people that need to lower my total calories to trigger weight loss/fat loss. Maybe after I'm fully adapted, I can be less concerned with calories. If I'm not losing body fat by my 14th day, I'm definitely going to tweak both my caloric intake and lower my fat intake.

                        Yes definitely keep us/me updated.

                        Can't really comment on that TOM. I can't even say I understand. I just know it is what it is. I do have a solution, which works for my GF, but I can't tell you unless you want to sacrifice these last 6 days.

                        6 Days, going on 7. Keep going marissa. You're doing great!
                        Nutritional Ketosis Journal - http://dobnk.blogspot.com/ and http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread83999.html

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Pebbles67 View Post
                          BMRI imagine dob's calculations are correct

                          I am a 5' 10" woman who exercises 5 x a week. My average BMR plus activity is 2600. This is not only by calculation, I have a GoWearFit armband that tells me exactly how many calories I am burning.

                          Binges Unfortunately I think the cure for binging is a combo of meeting nutritional needs and using supplements to heal and dealing with the emotional stuff too. I am following the recommendations of Julia Ross in "The Diet Cure" for taking amino acids to heal binge issues.

                          I don't believe that NK is necessarily my answer. It is a case of when I'm on I'm on, but when I go off. Whew. It is funny that Richard started his thread and I put the link to this thread there in the same week that I was in a mega binge. On 4/21 I was 215.8 and deeply NK. A week later I am nearly 230lbs and emotionally and physically sick. I need to find something that I can stick with that when I go off, I won't have a 15lb backlash

                          I have to confess that I am currently two days into a week long experiment of having 75-100 carbs/day. That is up from my norm of 20 or below. I want to encourage you two to keep going on the NK program for a few months. It is great, but right now my goal is to continue the search for a cure to my eating disorder. I may be back to NK next week, who knows?
                          I appreciate your honesty and your openness with binging. Let us know how your experiment goes. It will be interesting to see how your body tolerates the increase in carbs.

                          After I did the atkins induction and a couple levels of OWL, my GF was fed up, so I started eating fruit. I continued to eat more and more fruit, occasionally eating desserts here and there. By the end I was eating 30-40 strawberries, an apple, and 1-2 cups of blueberries, and I stayed around 212 lbs the until I began this experiment.

                          Hope all goes well.
                          Nutritional Ketosis Journal - http://dobnk.blogspot.com/ and http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread83999.html

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Red View Post
                            Thanks dkJames & Pebbles.

                            Just in the 3 days since i adjusted my macros down based on a new goal weight of 140 *and* reduced my fat a wee bit (but not below 60%) -- i can say there has been FINALLY movement on the scale in the right direction. Since i jumped on here a week or so ago, i am now down 5 lbs. Which puts me back to lowest weight coming off the HCG diet (2x rounds). I loved HCG but i wanted to learn to eat normal** and loose weight normally since i am now in spitting distance of goal weight. Hence primal & now NK.

                            **learning to eat "normal" is probably the hardest thing there is to do if you have any issues -- emotional eating (me); thyroid problems (me); adrenal fatigue (me); pregnancies (2); SAD brainwashing and poor body images thanks to media (me). I am awed and amazed everyday how much i am learning about chemistry/body fuel - and the microbiology differences from person to person. There is no one right WOE for all...instead it really is a personal journey of trial and error.

                            The thing i noticed the most (and its shocking) is how after loosing 35lbs---and going down 4 dress sizes--I could still look in the mirror and see a fat person. Our minds are so all powerful...I feel that 1/2 of the battle is mental.
                            Hola Red, can you please tell me what your current macro %'s are, and when you reduced your fat intake did you increase your protein intake to compensate for the loss in calories from fat? Also, can you please update your progress next week? 5 lbs in a week. Awesome. Are you also measuring yourself. I'm making progress with fat loss but not weight loss. As long as your dress size is going down, which it has, you're doing great.

                            Congrats on the total weight loss as well. that is a great accomplishment in itself. IDK, but when I see your pic I see a beautiful, vibrant woman. i say focus less on the mirror and more on measurements.
                            Nutritional Ketosis Journal - http://dobnk.blogspot.com/ and http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread83999.html

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by dob View Post
                              No problem and thanks for checking out if my calcs are correct. I may have not calculated correctly earlier. I'm using a the light activity multiplier of 1.35 and at 20% of my ideal weight, I should be eating closer to 2,000 Kcals. I've read that CICO is not an important factor, so i set my calories at 2,200 originally. However, I maybe one of those people that need to lower my total calories to trigger weight loss/fat loss. Maybe after I'm fully adapted, I can be less concerned with calories. If I'm not losing body fat by my 14th day, I'm definitely going to tweak both my caloric intake and lower my fat intake.

                              Yes definitely keep us/me updated.

                              Can't really comment on that TOM. I can't even say I understand. I just know it is what it is. I do have a solution, which works for my GF, but I can't tell you unless you want to sacrifice these last 6 days.

                              6 Days, going on 7. Keep going marissa. You're doing great!
                              Cool, well I'll be interested to see your findings on day 14. I personally am eating around my BMR. I would eat a little more but just not super hungry, a lot of times I have eaten under 1600cals for the day which is super weird for me, but I guess I'll take it. You sound like you are doing great as well, and thanks so much for all the positivity and encouragement!!!

                              Comment


                              • Hello all from Denmark

                                Sorry to hear about some issues like binge disorder or heavy snacking. My wife was snacking a lot too, even when we turned primal. At some point, I was joking and asking her whether she turned into a primal bird ... but she actually told me it was a serious issue because she felt it was a manifestation of some deeper issue which probably had been impacting her for ages, even more so during the SAD days.

                                So I took the bull by the horns and told her that it will be easy to deal with if you follow this with me: one meal a day on week days, and 2 meals a day on one week-end day (or 2) with heavy work-outs that day, enough rest (both mind and body) in between and slow pace movement most of the week on one meal a day (with an occasional sprint for FUN, not for anything else - we practice the Tabata sprints, it's hard but really fun!). Oh yeah, about once every 2 or 3 weeks, we fast 2 days in a row.

                                Her snacking habit is completely gone, her moods and energy have stabilized nicely and her body comp is changing (not her weight but both of us do not care about weight since we are already rather lean after more than 1/2 year on LCHFMP to correct something that was broken in our metabolism).

                                We make sure we have plenty of home-made bone broth (just finished making some with grass-fed lamb and lama bones, simmering for 48+ hours). Our breakfast is one cup of broth, sometimes coffee only (my wife is not always keen on meaty taste in the morning) with coconut oil and whipping cream in the coffee or tea. Nothing else until early dinner except water and tea (coffee is an early morning thing, never at any other time of the day).

                                Dinner is mostly low carb veggies, olive or avocado oil, eggs (from hens or fish roe or both mixed up in an omelet), some fatty fish, a few nuts or other side stuff. We do eat red meat or chicken but not as often as fatty fish. We do some cheeses to bring up the protein requirement as well but stopped all the heavy cream/ full fat Greek yogurt for a while as dessert. Butter is almost always on the menu though because while it can be a little insulinogenic (especially with a little carb), it seems (from what I read) that it can induce a temporary physiological insulin resistance of ... fat cells which are not listening to insulin for storing extra fat. Instead they release free fatty acids!! so fat-adapted people burn the fat store thanks to butter!! who would have known, uh! Butter as a weight loss tool

                                In all this, we don't count calories - why you may ask ? Because with one meal a day on average, we don't need. We eat until sated, that's it. I truly believe that the human body is accustomed or programmed (genes) to stay without dealing with food for at least half a day, it seems just normal and balanced. Moreover, calories are measured in calorimeter where all the food is turned into ashes. That's not what happens inside the body. Instead, when we have to count something, it is the weight amount of foods and adapt it to how we feel. Like some days ago, I felt like eating BIG time one evening. The next evening, I ate almost nothing. Plus we also believe in eating more often once in a while (we use week-ends for that since it is a more "social" time where we can be invited for brunches, etc). My thinking is that if I think I had too many carbs or proteins in one sitting, I just burn it off with extra work-out. Very easy.

                                Anyway, all this babbling to say that you can fix your disorder if you make peace with the fact that 3 squared meals a day may not be optimal at all for you, as it will always keep the body busy with dealing with food (digestion, hunger signals, etc). Believe me, not eating all the day is not putting yourself into starvation mode, NOT AT ALL! You starve when you have not eaten for MANY days / weeks and rely solely on your fat store and muscles (like e.g. those who survived concentration camps who were forced to be in this awful metabolic state at the end of WWII - some even died because of resuming eating some (junk) food given by ally soldiers who were pitying them ...) Yeah, I know it's not a cheerful thought but you may think about "starvation" differently now: You don't starve when you eat every day on average, regardless of the timing and meal frequency!!.
                                Last edited by dkJames; 04-30-2013, 02:01 AM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X