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Eat More Fat! The Nutritional Ketosis Challenge continues...

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  • Originally posted by RMS123 View Post
    I don't know the answer to this, but am interested in your thoughts. If you end up eating very few carbs, then do you think the protein can trend a hair higher, so that you total protein never exceeds what protein + carbs would yield?
    Sorry, don't know the answer to this. I tend to err on the side of fat, but for me personally, going a little higher (just the amount of whatever carbs I didn't use, probably wouldn't make a lot of difference. I DO think the amount of protein I was eating before PB (almost 3x what I'm eating now) was WAY too much and probably caused at least some of my hunger/cravings.
    __________
    Donna

    My current diary: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread100765.html
    My original diary: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread77760.html



    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

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    • Hi all. Stepped away from this thread on Thursday as I was off work Friday and over the weekend. I always get so far behind when I'm away from this thread that getting back to it is very daunting. So I skipped reading yesterday too. I'm 12 pages behind. I think I'll just skip it all and jump back in here.

      Still following the EMF. Reading the Drs' book now. The Art and Science of Low Carb Living. I got the performance version too. I'll read the first one and then when it's time to ramp up for half marathon training, I'll study the performance edition. So far I like what I'm reading.

      Doing well so far. I'm on day 16 of the 21 day sugar detox coupled with EMF and I'm down 9 lbs. I feel it's necessary to give the disclaimer that these 9 lbs were part of the 12 I gained in February when I let myself eat wheat and sugar. But, 9 lbs is 9 lbs. 3 more pounds and I'll be back to my primal low. Looking forward to it.
      Primal since March 5, 2012
      SW: 221 | CW: 204 | LPW: 166 | UGW: 140 (80 lbs loss)



      Comment


      • Originally posted by RMS123 View Post
        I don't know the answer to this, but am interested in your thoughts. If you end up eating very few carbs, then do you think the protein can trend a hair higher, so that you total protein never exceeds what protein + carbs would yield?
        I bet you that there is some flexibility there. It looks like another N=1 experiment.
        Chris
        "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
        Unknown

        My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

        My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

        Comment


        • Paula, try canned coconut milk in your morning coffee instead of black. Once yo get used to the difference, it is actually quite taqsty.
          Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
            I think we should compile a list of all the various formulas kicking around for how to calculate protein needs. Then people can pick and choose (maybe blend) their own. This can be a confusing topic. These are my numbers just for fun.

            Sisson's PB says .7g/lb of Lean body mass (So at 150 and 20% that is 120X.7=84gr)
            Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet says "Ideal" weight in kilos (140lbs=63.5k so 63.5gr) the trick here is how to define "ideal".
            Phinney & Voleck say :according to this table How to Add More Fat to Your Low Carb Diet for Nutritional Ketosis my range as a 5'10" female would be anywhere from 81-169gr
            Rosedale says:Welcome to Dr.Rosedale's Website Ideal weight in kilos-10% so for me 63.5-6.35=57.15gr


            PLEASE HELP ME FILL IN ANY OTHERS YOU CAN THINK OF. THANKS.
            In the Keto Calculator I use the average of the suggestions of Phinney & Voleck, and Lyle McDonald.

            Lyle McDonald (author of "The Ketogenic Diet"), writes that for overweight individuals who want to lose weight 1.5 g/kg lean body mass is the minimum. More if you train or are lean (see here, it's a good read!)

            Phinney & Volek wrote in the book "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" that 0.6 g/lbs (1.32 g/kg) of lean body mass should be the minimum.

            For the calculator I use 1.4 g/kg as the minimum, the average of the two numbers.
            Last edited by martinus; 03-19-2013, 09:37 AM.

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            • Originally posted by martinus View Post
              In the Keto Calculator I use the average of the suggestions of Phinney & Voleck, and Lyle McDonald.

              Lyle McDonald (author of "The Ketogenic Diet"), writes that for overweight individuals who want to lose weight 1.5 g/kg lean body mass is the minimum. More if you train or are lean (see here, it's a good read!)

              Phinney & Volek wrote in the book "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" that 0.6 g/lbs (1.32 g/kg) of lean body mass should be the minimum.

              For the calculator I use 1.4 g/kg as the minimum, the average of the two numbers.
              I liked your calculator. Kept it simple and easy to understand. Maybe the mods should just link to your calculator and have that be the official formula.
              Primal since March 5, 2012
              SW: 221 | CW: 204 | LPW: 166 | UGW: 140 (80 lbs loss)



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              • Originally posted by Pebbles67 View Post
                OK Gang, Sadly, I have to admit that I have been the Artificial Sweetener Queen almost the entire time that I have been Primal and even before that. Recently while on the EMF protocol, my intake has increased exponentially. Those BPCs taste soooo good with HWC and sweeteners. Last Saturday I completely dropped sweeteners from my life. I am NOT yet loving my black coffee, but other benefits are coming to light. I also dropped dairy. This will be a 30 day experiment. More on that later.

                Interestingly, Robb Wolf says that when a client is having trouble losing weight, he asks 3 questions.
                1)Do you use Artificial Sweeteners?
                2)How much of your daily calorie intake is from dairy? (Dairy BTW is a Paleo no-no. So I was surprised that Robb's clients would be eating dairy.)
                3)How is your sleep?

                Here is an article that explains the negatives of sweetener intake.
                The Dish on Sugar & Sweeteners | Balanced Bites | Holistic & Paleo Nutrition Education


                BTW all you stevia enthusiasts. Apparently unless you are using the green stuff made from the ground leaf, you are using what amounts to an artificial sweetener. (Please don't kill the messenger. lol)
                Hello Pebbles67. There is a lot of misinformation circulating on the webs regarding aspartame safety and because I wanted to address that issue, I just finished writing a detailed rapport on this subject: Are There Any Aspartame Side Effects Or Dangers Like Getting Cancer?

                I hope I clarified the subject
                I am not a bodybuilding/fat loss/strength training "guru" BUT I achieved a lean state with ease after learning the correct way to train and eat and I want to HELP YOU achieve the same.

                Getting fit is also about managing your mindset:
                http://getfitmindset.com

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                • Originally posted by Pebbles67 View Post
                  May I ask why you are only aiming for 60% fat? I do not agree with the Keto calculator's idea that fat doesn't matter. It may not matter for getting into ketosis, but it sure does matter for satiety and staying power. Most NK gurus recommend at least 65% (Keeping carbs and protein the same, 105 grams of fat would be 65% with total calories at 1445.)

                  Glad to have you back.

                  .
                  Well - to answer you're question, I'm not really sure! hahaha! When I posted that I was feeling like I needed to shake things up a bit and see if I have better results - but then I started to really analysis my progress since starting the EMF plan. Truth be told --- I think the weekend rum escapades is probably what is keeping me in the stall. I've been stuck in the low 180s for nearly 6 months - but haven't 100% given up the rum. So, now I need to focus on eating very clean and see what happens. But after reading more about the EMF thing I'm leaning towards just focusing on the LCHF for a bit longer. UGH! this is hard.

                  So many different ways to calculate and plan......... my head is spinning - which is why I wanted to take a little time away from it all. I need to find what seems best for me and my circumstances and stay with it for a good 3 months. I'm gonna think things through and do some more research and get back to you................
                  1. Love ME no matter what noises are screaming at me, or who is trying to tear me down.
                  2. Eat to heal
                  3. Move to live
                  4. Embrace today
                  5. Live with intention
                  6. Respect my body
                  7. Cultivate joy
                  8. Find my passion
                  9. Meditate on peace in my soul

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by demuralist View Post
                    Tomi, what were you doing when it was working? You were losing weight, right?
                    When I first started the LCHF thing I lost 10 pounds, then things stalled out. But since then I haven't gone without the rum for more than 2 weeks. So --- that needs to be my focus I think, huh? Stay with the same way I was eating when I lost the initial 10 pounds - and stay clear of the rum. We don't have any, and I've asked hubby not to buy any!
                    1. Love ME no matter what noises are screaming at me, or who is trying to tear me down.
                    2. Eat to heal
                    3. Move to live
                    4. Embrace today
                    5. Live with intention
                    6. Respect my body
                    7. Cultivate joy
                    8. Find my passion
                    9. Meditate on peace in my soul

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Salina13 View Post
                      What about for people that don't use artificial sweeteners, don't eat any dairy and their sleep still sucks?
                      I've had sleep issues for years and going primal/paleo has only minimally helped that. ?
                      Salina - I have suffered from insomnia for many years!!! I found this and its makes a huge difference!

                      I buy it at Fred Meyers (AKA Krogers) in the health food section. Its pricey - but works - and if you watch they often have it 1/2 off - thats then I stock up! I also use ear plugs because I'm a very light sleeper, and hubby snores! I will sleep like a baby as long as I take the Knock Out, and use the ear plugs! No more insomnia!

                      good luck!
                      1. Love ME no matter what noises are screaming at me, or who is trying to tear me down.
                      2. Eat to heal
                      3. Move to live
                      4. Embrace today
                      5. Live with intention
                      6. Respect my body
                      7. Cultivate joy
                      8. Find my passion
                      9. Meditate on peace in my soul

                      Comment


                      • Ugh I'm an artificial sweetener junkie! As in the form of Diet Coke. I know I need to cut it out, but it sooo darn hard!

                        Yesterday went pretty good, I just went and bought some organic chicken broth from Trader Joes. Will that work? Also, what about heavy cream in coffee? I'm struggling knowing what to eat and in what combinations. Is there logs, sample menus anywhere?

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                        • Originally posted by unloading30 View Post
                          Ugh I'm an artificial sweetener junkie! As in the form of Diet Coke. I know I need to cut it out, but it sooo darn hard!

                          Yesterday went pretty good, I just went and bought some organic chicken broth from Trader Joes. Will that work? Also, what about heavy cream in coffee? I'm struggling knowing what to eat and in what combinations. Is there logs, sample menus anywhere?
                          The chicken broth from my Trader Joes is low sodium, so it will not work as well. Cream is one that is being debated, some stall using dairy, some it doesn't bother, you will have to figure that one out by experimenting.

                          If you go to MyFitnessPal.com many of us track on there and it can give you an idea about what we do.

                          Tomi, If Rum is what stalls you I doubt that bothering to refigure your macros will do any good, sorry. I would suggest that you stick tight to the macros that worked when you were losing, and if you are able to-just allow an occasional rum, if it stalls you then you will have to pull back. But, my memory is that you also had some cake in there and maybe a vacation...so maybe the occasional rum isn't the issue?
                          Chris
                          "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
                          Unknown

                          My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

                          My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

                          Comment


                          • [QUOTE=demuralist;1131929]The chicken broth from my Trader Joes is low sodium, so it will not work as well. Cream is one that is being debated, some stall using dairy, some it doesn't bother, you will have to figure that one out by experimenting.

                            If you go to MyFitnessPal.com many of us track on there and it can give you an idea about what we do.

                            Thanks for the tip, that will help a lot! I just need ideas, I'm afraid to eat, lol!

                            Comment


                            • [QUOTE=unloading30;1131941]
                              Originally posted by demuralist View Post
                              The chicken broth from my Trader Joes is low sodium, so it will not work as well. Cream is one that is being debated, some stall using dairy, some it doesn't bother, you will have to figure that one out by experimenting.

                              If you go to MyFitnessPal.com many of us track on there and it can give you an idea about what we do.

                              Thanks for the tip, that will help a lot! I just need ideas, I'm afraid to eat, lol!
                              Keep in mind we are all experimenting, none of us are experts, we are just working our way through the maze same as you, and reporting on our own N=1 experiments and any information we find that might be helpful. I would suggest you keep meticulous records, cause you are likely to lose early and then slow to a near stall, at which point you will start tweaking. Knowing what worked and what didn't will come in handy when you want to to back and replicate it. Good luck, and relax-stress is not good for fat loss.
                              Chris
                              "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
                              Unknown

                              My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

                              My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

                              Comment


                              • Geez Guys and Gals, I take a 3 hr nap and end up having to respond to a ton of posts.lol

                                everyone Dropping artificial sweeteners and dairy is my n=1. No one need do what I am doing unless they decide for themselves that they would be healthier without. I am just reporting what I am doing and as demuralist said we are not experts. I have been Primal for 2.5 years, but only striving for NK for about 3 months.

                                Tomi I would go back to the original macros on the first page for your restart. I am assuming that is what you used in January up to before your vaca.

                                Salina 13 Robb Wolf was not saying that AS and dairy had anything to do with sleep necessarily, just that sleep problems need to be dealt with. I take 300-400 mg of magnesium in the evenings to help with sleep and electrolyte issues.
                                I have also had success with a 50mg dose 5htp before bed. Use the fast acting, not slow release and do not use if on an antidepressant.

                                martinus Thanks for clarifying the formulas used for the protein levels of the keto calculator.

                                honeybuns I'll try that, I have done it in the past. I may have trouble fitting it into my new macros.

                                RMS123 How much protein are you eating right now? Rosedale sets his lower limit for most at 55grams even if ideal wt. in kg demands less. He is generally the lowest.

                                Jenn I liked the P7V low carb book but it is mostly theory. The formulas on protein and fat are in the performance book and their new atkins book.

                                Marinas I will read your article and get back to you.

                                Phew! I hope I didn't miss anyone.
                                Last edited by Pebbles67; 03-19-2013, 11:53 AM.
                                Primal since 9/24/2010
                                "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

                                Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
                                MFP username: MDAPebbles67

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