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Eat More Fat! The Nutritional Ketosis Challenge continues...

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  • As long as your vinegar doesn't have sugar in it. Some do.
    Chris
    "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
    Unknown

    My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

    My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

    Comment


    • I asked this over in Recipes but I think we've talked about homemade mayo here too. I understand that if you add some whey, that can be drained from yogurt, to the mayo, after it's made, and then let it sit on the counter for several hours, it greatly extends it's "shelf-life". Could the liquid that forms on the top of sour cream be whey, and if so, could I use that instead?

      Comment


      • Sorry, not sure. I make my own mayo, but don't add whey. I use my batch within a week.
        Primal since 9/24/2010
        "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

        Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
        MFP username: MDAPebbles67

        Comment


        • I dont know the answer either. I also make my own mayo but not had any problem with it spoiling. I believe i posted a link to the "egg board" or something like that and it had info on how long a mayo would last. If i was worried i would make a smaller batch or use pasteurized eggs. But besides using it for my avocado salad i also make homemade salad dressings so it gets used up.
          Chris
          "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
          Unknown

          My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

          My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Pebbles67 View Post
            Soooo, I just gave the Keto Calculator another chance. Keto Calculator It really is a good tool. I like how it gives you so much info.

            When I input my new macros. 75%f/20%p/5%c 117g/70g/18g with 1400cals, it tells me that I will have hit my goal of 165lbs and under 20%BF by 9/24/2013. That date is my 3 year Primal Anniversary.
            Sorry - I'm a little behind on this thread so pardon if this topic has slid to the wayside.

            I've been gone for a couple weeks - just needed to take a breather from the intense tracking! but, I'm ready to get back to it now. I've just looked at the Keto Calculator - and if this is correct - I need to be eating more protein. I've been trying to stay around 65, but according to this I need to be closer to 85. I'm going to give it a try and see what happens. My goals will be 40 grams of carbs, 85 grams protein and 85 grams fat.

            How does that sound?
            1. Love ME no matter what noises are screaming at me, or who is trying to tear me down.
            2. Eat to heal
            3. Move to live
            4. Embrace today
            5. Live with intention
            6. Respect my body
            7. Cultivate joy
            8. Find my passion
            9. Meditate on peace in my soul

            Comment


            • I think we should compile a list of all the various formulas kicking around for how to calculate protein needs. Then people can pick and choose (maybe blend) their own. This can be a confusing topic. These are my numbers just for fun.

              Sisson's PB says .7g/lb of Lean body mass (So at 150 and 20% that is 120X.7=84gr)
              Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet says "Ideal" weight in kilos (140lbs=63.5k so 63.5gr) the trick here is how to define "ideal".
              Phinney & Voleck say :according to this table http://www.carbsmart.com/how-to-add-...l-ketosis.html my range as a 5'10" female would be anywhere from 81-169gr
              Rosedale says:http://drrosedale.com/healthplan.htm#axzz2NxlwZXJ1 Ideal weight in kilos-10% so for me 63.5-6.35=57.15gr


              PLEASE HELP ME FILL IN ANY OTHERS YOU CAN THINK OF. THANKS.
              Last edited by Paleobird; 03-18-2013, 11:24 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by mks8500 View Post
                DG - You are frustrated and I just want to tell you not to give up the same way you told me the same thing a few weeks ago.

                .
                Thank you Megan for putting things into perspective. You are right I should be frustrated, not depressed. You have given me the motivation to continue & thanks to everyone for your support. I suspect I would be gaining even more without you.
                Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 03-19-2013, 12:22 AM. Reason: spelling

                Comment


                • Thanks Paleobird, Those are the only ones I have used. The "ideal" weight issue has been a problem on this thread. I have told people to pick a weight that is on the low end of weight range for their height. I have been using your recommendation of 100lbs + 5 lbs for each inch over 5 feet. However, I am 5"10" as well and I now see you are using 140 as your optimal weight.

                  *Kwasniewski allows ideal weight in kilos + or - 10%. So for me 61-75 grams. In the end, I still like his formula best which is why he is in the first post. Except, recently I read that he wants minimum fat at 2.5x ideal weight. I usually only eat about 2x.

                  Tomi I am following Dr Rosedale's recommendations. So for me with an ideal weight of 150lbs/68kg -6.8 =61g protein. Because I believe that too much protein raises blood sugar.

                  The Keto calculator is based on Phinney and Voleks chart referenced in Paleobird's post. *The values can be changed to reflect what you want to do. So, to answer your question, I think protein level is part of the N=1. Try P&Vs levels and see what happens. May I ask why you are only aiming for 60% fat? I do not agree with the Keto calculator's idea that fat doesn't matter. It may not matter for getting into ketosis, but it sure does matter for satiety and staying power. Most NK gurus recommend at least 65% (Keeping carbs and protein the same, 105 grams of fat would be 65% with total calories at 1445.)

                  Glad to have you back.

                  Ddraig Goch I'm glad you are continuing with us.
                  Last edited by Pebbles67; 03-19-2013, 06:22 AM.
                  Primal since 9/24/2010
                  "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

                  Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
                  MFP username: MDAPebbles67

                  Comment


                  • Tomi, what were you doing when it was working? You were losing weight, right?
                    Chris
                    "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
                    Unknown

                    My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

                    My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

                    Comment


                    • OK Gang, Sadly, I have to admit that I have been the Artificial Sweetener Queen almost the entire time that I have been Primal and even before that. Recently while on the EMF protocol, my intake has increased exponentially. Those BPCs taste soooo good with HWC and sweeteners. Last Saturday I completely dropped sweeteners from my life. I am NOT yet loving my black coffee, but other benefits are coming to light. I also dropped dairy. This will be a 30 day experiment. More on that later.

                      Interestingly, Robb Wolf says that when a client is having trouble losing weight, he asks 3 questions.
                      1)Do you use Artificial Sweeteners?
                      2)How much of your daily calorie intake is from dairy? (Dairy BTW is a Paleo no-no. So I was surprised that Robb's clients would be eating dairy.)
                      3)How is your sleep?

                      Here is an article that explains the negatives of sweetener intake.
                      The Dish on Sugar & Sweeteners | Balanced Bites | Holistic & Paleo Nutrition Education


                      BTW all you stevia enthusiasts. Apparently unless you are using the green stuff made from the ground leaf, you are using what amounts to an artificial sweetener. (Please don't kill the messenger. lol)
                      Primal since 9/24/2010
                      "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

                      Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
                      MFP username: MDAPebbles67

                      Comment


                      • What about for people that don't use artificial sweeteners, don't eat any dairy and their sleep still sucks?
                        I've had sleep issues for years and going primal/paleo has only minimally helped that. Yesterday was our first day of ketogenics and sleeping was sooooo much worse.
                        I'm hoping its because I just started and my body needs the 3-4 days period to switch over to fat burning.
                        By yesterday evening I had a headache, my stomach was doing somersaults and my head felt really fuzzy.
                        Of course my husband is loving it and I'm sure when he gets out of bed this morning he will have dropped like 10 pounds or something ridiculous!
                        Surprisingly I was really close to my ranges right out of the gate on this, especially considering that fiber isn't counted for carbs. (Thanks Pebbles67 for that info!)
                        I'm using the ideal weight ranges so basically 4:1 ratio for fat versus carbs and 2:1 ratio for fat versus protein.
                        My HSIS (hotstuff in swimwear) weight is 120lbs which is 54.43kg.
                        Carbs should equal half of that: 27g
                        Protein is +/- 10%: 49-59g
                        and I'm going for the low end on the fat for more weight loss so x2: 108g
                        Does that sound about right?
                        Last edited by Salina13; 03-19-2013, 07:00 AM.

                        Comment


                        • I'm pretty much using the formulas on the first page. I'm not likely to ever wear swimsuits again (LOL) but I'm figuring my ideal weight at around 138. I'm 5'4" and at that weight I can wear size 6 or 4 depending on style and brand.

                          So, goal wt 138 = approx 63 kilos
                          Protein range is 56.7 to 69.3 grams
                          Upper range of carbs is 31.5 grams
                          Fat range is either 157.5 g (at 2.5x) or 126 g (at 2x) (i've been using the 2x number mostly)
                          So my calories S/B around 1512 to 1785
                          I calculate my BMR to be 1463.59

                          This seems to be a pretty comfortable range for me to maintain for quite a while. I'm feeling very satisfied and am not hungry much anymore. Cravings are just gone...there isn't anything I crave and the only time I feel hungry is if I use too much liquid splenda or too much carb/sweet at one time. I'm losing slowly, but I see a downward trend, which is just fine with me.

                          Pebbles, I'm in the artificial sweetener group. That was the last thing I was planning to give up, lol. I've cut it down tremendously though. I use two drops of liquid Stevia maybe a couple of times a week--usually just to take the strong edge off the plain Greek yogurt, but not to sweeten it, and I use liquid splenda (liquid to avoid the fillers, but I know it's still chemicals) if I make or buy iced coffee. That's a huge drop from what I used pre-PB. Still, I was planning to get the whole PB and EMF thing really down, then slowly but surely get rid of the last few "junk" things I ingest.

                          I AM finding that I enjoy my morning cup of coffee on the way to work with just cream. That is so totally different for me. I'm used to drinking it sweetened, so it's a little shocking that I look forward to it so much.
                          Last edited by 252dlp; 03-19-2013, 07:50 AM. Reason: adding
                          __________
                          Donna

                          My current diary: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread100765.html
                          My original diary: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread77760.html



                          Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

                          Comment


                          • I don't know the answer to this, but am interested in your thoughts. If you end up eating very few carbs, then do you think the protein can trend a hair higher, so that you total protein never exceeds what protein + carbs would yield?
                            -- Ruth

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Pebbles67 View Post
                              OK Gang, Sadly, I have to admit that I have been the Artificial Sweetener Queen almost the entire time that I have been Primal and even before that. Recently while on the EMF protocol, my intake has increased exponentially. Those BPCs taste soooo good with HWC and sweeteners. Last Saturday I completely dropped sweeteners from my life. I am NOT yet loving my black coffee, but other benefits are coming to light. I also dropped dairy. This will be a 30 day experiment. More on that later.

                              Interestingly, Robb Wolf says that when a client is having trouble losing weight, he asks 3 questions.
                              1)Do you use Artificial Sweeteners?
                              2)How much of your daily calorie intake is from dairy? (Dairy BTW is a Paleo no-no. So I was surprised that Robb's clients would be eating dairy.)
                              3)How is your sleep?

                              Here is an article that explains the negatives of sweetener intake.
                              The Dish on Sugar & Sweeteners | Balanced Bites | Holistic & Paleo Nutrition Education


                              BTW all you stevia enthusiasts. Apparently unless you are using the green stuff made from the ground leaf, you are using what amounts to an artificial sweetener. (Please don't kill the messenger. lol)
                              Great questions and the article about AS was so timely this morning I have dropped AS. My coffee had CM in it and was different but not horrible. I am going to try and grow stevia and dry it this summer.
                              Karin


                              Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

                              What am I doing? Depends on the day.

                              Comment


                              • Salina, that sounds about right. Be sure to do some bouillon, it really does make a difference in those symptoms.

                                For me, it seems the EMF has made a positive difference in my sleep.
                                Chris
                                "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
                                Unknown

                                My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

                                My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

                                Comment

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