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Eat More Fat! The Nutritional Ketosis Challenge continues...

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  • Ddraig Goch I need my Lean Body Mass guru(ette) I posted this in my journal, but in case you miss it.

    I have done 9 days at the 65 gram level and have seen no marked change in my FBS. I think in order to reach Dr. Seyfreid's ideal FBS level, the second part of the formula has to be low calories. Dr. Ede got to the ideal FBS and the 4.0 mmol ketone level (and was miserable) eating around 1000 cals and 50-60g protein. I do not see that as smart or necessary for me at this time.

    This week I gained 1.5% body fat, but still lost weight. My fluid intake was steady. This tells me I lost lean body mass, not fat. (Ddraig Goch, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.)
    Primal since 9/24/2010
    "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
    MFP username: MDAPebbles67

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    • ^. Pebbles - didn't you up the sodium this week? So, if fluid stayed the same, but body had to adjust to sodium, wonder if that could impact things?
      -- Ruth

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      • Originally posted by Deborah105 View Post
        I'm wondering if the kitchen visits were more about bad habits (always scrounging for snacks) or if it was still carb cravings. I wasn't hungry, but I sure felt like I needed *something*. It's interesting to be paying attention to things I normally don't give a second thought to.
        When you open the refrigerator looking for something to do... Consider a hobby or a good book.

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        • Originally posted by Pebbles67 View Post
          Ddraig Goch I need my Lean Body Mass guru(ette) I posted this in my journal, but in case you miss it.

          I have done 9 days at the 65 gram level and have seen no marked change in my FBS. I think in order to reach Dr. Seyfreid's ideal FBS level, the second part of the formula has to be low calories. Dr. Ede got to the ideal FBS and the 4.0 mmol ketone level (and was miserable) eating around 1000 cals and 50-60g protein. I do not see that as smart or necessary for me at this time.

          This week I gained 1.5% body fat, but still lost weight. My fluid intake was steady. This tells me I lost lean body mass, not fat. (Ddraig Goch, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.)
          I've replyed in your journal - we have a time zone difference remember

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          • you know, organizing or cleaning as long as you are in there is not a bad way to spend a trip to the fridge. And if you have to do that every time you open the door I can guarantee that, unless you enjoy cleaning your fridge, it will cut down on the trips you take there.

            I don't do the fridge though, there isn't anything fast and off plan in there, I am usually prowling the pantry where all the fast carbs and nuts are.
            Chris
            "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
            Unknown

            My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

            My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

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            • Originally posted by demuralist View Post
              you know, organizing or cleaning as long as you are in there is not a bad way to spend a trip to the fridge. And if you have to do that every time you open the door I can guarantee that, unless you enjoy cleaning your fridge, it will cut down on the trips you take there.

              I don't do the fridge though, there isn't anything fast and off plan in there, I am usually prowling the pantry where all the fast carbs and nuts are.
              I bet I said fridge, but I meant kitchen. I open every door when I'm on the prowl. Rowwrr!

              Today has been much better.
              SW 209 | PSW 203 | GW 158

              Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

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              • Blanket woots to everyone for their ongoing pursuit of health, happiness and success! This is such an inspiring crowd.

                And now, something to share.

                As I mentioned upthread, I was experiencing a significant loss of appetite as a result of being pretty deep in to NK. That kind of threw me a bit because I could feel I wasn't eating enough, or getting the right nutrition, but didn't want to force myself to eat without appetite. That culminated in strong low blood sugar cravings yesterday. After a bit of a wrestle with the inner me, I ate some high fat ice cream, some higher sugar content chocolate and baked potatoes in butter for dinner. By the time I hit dinner I couldn't finish all the potato. So I didn't force myself. I ate till I was satisifed and ditched the rest.

                This morning I've worked out, I'm experiencing a comfortable level of normal hunger -- and I don't have the least desire to eat anything with sugar, or another potato. I also have good levels of energy.

                So this leads to me think that I was letting my macros get too low. While the body doesn't need a lot of glucose it does need some, and I think I was so carb restricted and so low on protein (so no protein conversion) that the inner alarm bells triggered. Which means I need to reassess my macros, because I don't want to be cravings carbs.

                Main lesson learned for me is -- treat this as an inside-out journey, not an outside-in. Don't fall into the trap of imposing a program on myself and then ignore the clear signals my body is sending me that something's not working. Instead trust my body to guide me to the optimal way of eating for me. Up till now I have always put myself inside the 'diet mentality' straitjacket, rigidly sticking to the external rules, refusing to deviate out of fear of failure. This time I feel far more relaxed, and I'm really working hard to trust myself, trust my body, and know that I can and will succeed by being open to adjustments.

                Has anyone else reached this point? Any other suggestions?

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                • Three weeks ago I started eating according to a fast-5 protocol. That's IF with a 5 hour window of eating. I broke the fast at 3:00 pm with a snack, then had a meal around 6:00 to 7:00 pm. In a week I lost 8 pounds, which I totally didn't expect, as I wasn't bloated when I started.

                  This week I was feeling a bit dizzy or out of it in the mornings, and the other morning I felt the need to eat breakfast. And so I did. Mmm... cheese omelet and pork sausage. I haven't felt the need to do that again. But if I do I will.

                  I'm trying to eat more for the time being, but I'm also trying to listen to my hunger.

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                  • Originally posted by OzK View Post
                    And now, something to share.
                    Ozk sounds like you are in a great place. To be able to listen to my body & understand what it wants is something I am striving for. Your experience has given me hope. Thanks for sharing.

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                    • Originally posted by Ddraig Goch View Post
                      Ozk sounds like you are in a great place. To be able to listen to my body & understand what it wants is something I am striving for. Your experience has given me hope. Thanks for sharing.
                      You're welcome. *g* But it's taken me a long time to get here. I think if I can consistently listen to myself, trust in myself, and let go of all the 'good' and 'bad' labels that actually make things worse, I'll succeed. I've always known that the smart thing to do (even within the context of PB/NK) is say -- I can eat whatever I want. No exceptions. And from that basis make choices that serve me well. But what's held me back is the fear that if I say that I'll start stuffing my face with food that won't help me. And in the past I have stuffed myself, because I never really believed what I was saying. I was always in a 'last chance food' binging contest mindset. So that's what I'm working on to truly really let go of, once and for all. And if I can achieve that, then I really am in control of what goes into my body. And then I'll know I can eat well, without self-punishment, find my healthy weight and stay there till the day I die!

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                      • Originally posted by demuralist View Post
                        you know, organizing or cleaning as long as you are in there is not a bad way to spend a trip to the fridge. And if you have to do that every time you open the door I can guarantee that, unless you enjoy cleaning your fridge, it will cut down on the trips you take there.
                        This is a very good idea.
                        SW 209 | PSW 203 | GW 158

                        Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

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                        • That is my goal is to be able to listen to my body and have TRUST in what it is telling me! Love that Ozk!

                          I never really put my trust in anything totally (as far as diets/health goes) until it works. I'm the kind of person who needs a little structure or plan to get started, but once I get started I have no problem tweaking things if it's not working...one reason why I decided to try the EMF thing. I've been hungrier the last couple of days, so just decided to eat more--yesterday that included macadamia nuts and Black & Green 85% chocolate (about 6 tiny squares). Today I'm back down to my EMF low weight.
                          __________
                          Donna

                          My current diary: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread100765.html
                          My original diary: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread77760.html



                          Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

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                          • regarding the chatter we are having about our protein levels (not sure which thread it is on, but figure it would be useful here, so that is where I am going to pick it up)...

                            reading a blog in which the woman is also doing a NK diet and keeping pretty good records (well did), she used Dr. Kwasniewski's equation to determine protein levels....height in centemeters, minus 100, equals protein (as well as your "goal weight") plus or minus 10%.

                            Interestingly for me, it is what I had originally determined...my height in centimeters is 170, my protein then is 70g, and plus or minus 10% would give me a range of 63g to 77g which is pretty much where I keep ending up.

                            Then, still using his equation, carbs need to be half that. So for me 31g to 38g (this is total carbs) again pretty much where I have been shooting (I do Net carbs and try to make half of my total carbs in fiber).

                            But the interesting part is that the Dr. advocates for 2.5 to 3.5 x's the "goal weight" number in total fat! And that is way higher than what I have been shooting for!

                            It worked for her. My Low Carb Road to Better Health: LESS PROTEIN - MORE FAT - "THE OPTIMAL DIET"
                            Chris
                            "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
                            Unknown

                            My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

                            My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

                            Comment


                            • The Optimal Diet is where our kilogram HSIS macro formula in the first post is adapted from. Maybe I should put the actual formula in as written by him.

                              The whole "Hot Stuff in a Swimsuit" thing seems to mean different things to different people.
                              Primal since 9/24/2010
                              "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

                              Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
                              MFP username: MDAPebbles67

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by demuralist View Post
                                But the interesting part is that the Dr. advocates for 2.5 to 3.5 x's the "goal weight" number in total fat! And that is way higher than what I have been shooting for!


                                Interestingly, if I were to put my numbers in to this formula the macros comes out the same as yours max P12-C6-F83, min P13-C6-F81 which is pretty much what mine is now in terms of fat (17-2-82). For NK I suspect the macro is more important than the calories. So if you are going to aim for this sort of ratio, your ketone monitor should hopefully confirm this
                                Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 03-09-2013, 10:36 AM. Reason: add quote

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