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Eat More Fat! The Nutritional Ketosis Challenge continues...

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  • How nice to 'meet' another Floridian. Hard to imagine more southern than all the rural areas surrounding Gainesville but I will take your word for it. I am pretty much a southern girl with deep roots in this area of the world

    I will add the sodium, just looking for ways to increase fat w/out increasing protein. How much broth should I have a day?

    Originally posted by demuralist View Post
    valmason, I lived in Gainesville for quite a few years and always planned to move to Sarasota as well, we vacationed there when we were kids. then I met the hubs and ended up staying a while longer before I moved to the South (Tennessee is way more southern than Florida!)

    Everyone needs to 1. Check out the recipe thread, and 2. post those recipes that you find working. Just make the title of the new discussion the name of the recipe so it will be easy for us to find it!

    For me, regarding the percentages, I don't pay that much attention to them. I work hard at keeping the carbs and protein within the limits and then fill in with the fat. If I go over on the carbs/protein, I ignore that and move on like it never happened. No guilt no punishment, just a learning experience. That helps me get back on track the fastest of anything I have tried. I think a day once a month (depending on your activity level) going over your carb/protein amounts is not going to kill you if you don't go totally nuts, but it will knock you out of ketosis no matter how much fat you have.

    there are a few of us who have added butter to broth or bouillon and find it hellpful. It really is about the sodium though, so if it is low sodium (Trader Joes usually is) gotta add some.
    You know all those things you wanted to do: You should go do them.

    Age 48
    height 5'3
    SW 215 lbs
    CW 180 lbs (whole foods/primal eating)
    LW 172 lbs
    GW 125ish lbs

    Comment


    • Originally posted by valmason01 View Post
      Considering a move to Sarasota next year. It is one of the most beautiful places I know and the ocean heals whatever ails me.
      Sarasota is my happy place, especially during a New York winter. Ten years to retirement, then we snowbird until I can strong arm my husband into living there full time. Besides our 15 yr old wants this house.
      Primal since 9/24/2010
      "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

      Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
      MFP username: MDAPebbles67

      Comment


      • Hey, nother FL girl here...
        Actually I'm "from" TN... but I've been mistaken for a "real Floridian" so I've gone native, and take that as a compliment.

        IMO TN is much more "southern" than anywhere but up in the panhandle... I lived there for a couple of years too.

        Glad to be a "real" FL girl now!
        I'm Floridian my marriage as hubs is from here in Central FL.
        “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
        ~Friedrich Nietzsche
        And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

        Comment


        • valmason, as much as you need on the broth. I usually did a large cup (12 to 16oz). I rarely need it now. I like adding the butter to my morning tea, yum!!

          I was in Orlando, before Disney was there, then moved to New Smyrna Beach, then to Gainesville to go back to school. No, you are probably right, except for the hills here, backwoods Gainesville probably isn't much different than the sticks around here! We plan to snowbird to Amelia Island for our retirement. want to be close to great medical care (Mayo).
          Chris
          "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
          Unknown

          My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

          My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
            Hey, nother FL girl here...
            Actually I'm "from" TN... but I've been mistaken for a "real Floridian" so I've gone native, and take that as a compliment.

            IMO TN is much more "southern" than anywhere but up in the panhandle... I lived there for a couple of years too.

            Glad to be a "real" FL girl now!
            I'm Floridian my marriage as hubs is from here in Central FL.
            Being in Florida before Disney, made me a native! I am still a Florida girl at heart. I miss the beach horribly, and can't get used to the 5 minute warnings for tornadoes. I prefer the 2 week warnings for the hurricanes!
            Chris
            "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
            Unknown

            My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

            My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Ddraig Goch View Post
              Does any one know - is it better to keep the ratio right & average out the cals over a few days or stick to the cals even if the fat number goes down.

              Just wondered as I have eaten a bit more carbs & protein today & to keep to 80% fat would take me 300 over on the cals which I can probably lose tomorrow (had the munchies tonight & ate off menu a bit)
              Macros or Calories?

              There are two important points here:
              1) The purpose of the EMF protocol is to reach a ketogenic state. You need a high percentage of fat (70+%) and a low carb count to reach Nutritional Ketosis. So for me the first aim would be to hit the fat macro.

              2)BUT, It is also important to not over eat in the calorie arena. Try and stay a minimum of 10% below your BMR plus activity burn rate. If you have maxed out calories for the day and percentages are not right, then you should just try again the next day.

              ***For many of us, it took several weeks to find the right food combos that allowed us to hit our fat goal within our calorie max.
              Primal since 9/24/2010
              "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

              Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
              MFP username: MDAPebbles67

              Comment


              • Originally posted by valmason01 View Post
                what is fat bread?? It sounds sinful. And choffee? Spill!
                Drink Choffy – Healthy and Delicious Brewed Chocolate

                Fat Bread: Third Time's The Charm. Mission Accomplished! | Free The Animal

                Comment


                • Hey Cori! Didn't realize you were from this area too... Good to know. Maybe we should have a Florida primal party one of these days. Funny, I grew up in Tallahassee but my family is originally from Suwanee county. I tend to think of this area as much more 'southern' than then the panhandle. Guess even being a redneck is subjective Demuralist, there is a country song called Country Must Be Country Wide. It's all a state of mind. Pebbles, let me know when you get here

                  Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                  Hey, nother FL girl here...
                  Actually I'm "from" TN... but I've been mistaken for a "real Floridian" so I've gone native, and take that as a compliment.

                  IMO TN is much more "southern" than anywhere but up in the panhandle... I lived there for a couple of years too.

                  Glad to be a "real" FL girl now!
                  I'm Floridian my marriage as hubs is from here in Central FL.
                  You know all those things you wanted to do: You should go do them.

                  Age 48
                  height 5'3
                  SW 215 lbs
                  CW 180 lbs (whole foods/primal eating)
                  LW 172 lbs
                  GW 125ish lbs

                  Comment


                  • If you eat eggs, a good way to get fat is:
                    Soften 2 T cream cheese
                    Scramble 1 egg, add to the cheese
                    Fry in butter, put extra butter on top.

                    I think it's 83% fat low protein and carbs.
                    So yum!

                    Comment


                    • Hi - I'm new to MDA & Primal/Paleo lifestyle. I got interested in changing my diet after reading The 4-Hr Body which promotes a slow-carb diet (hi-prot, lentils/legumes/veg/nuts/seeds/fats & no fruit). I just finished my 3rd week with stalled results (stopped doing cardio but did BodyPump to maintain muscle since starting & may have enjoyed cheat days a little too much), but have kept 5 lbs off since wk #1.

                      This is a great site (amongst others) with tons of great info & I'm now thinking of going Primal & omitting legumes & adding back small quantities of fruit.

                      After doing my research (something I always do before making the leap) and reading this particular thread in its entirety, I can't help but notice some common themes:

                      1 - Many of you seem to be too careful with lowering carbs too much (hardly any mention of veggies but for avocados)
                      2 - increasing fats to the detriment of protein (isn't the point of Primal to keep protein up for satiety & increase/maintain muscle - ditto for fats)
                      3 - a lot of IF to the point where it seems obssessive - would this not lower metabolism too much where body will hang on to fat slowing down weightloss
                      4 - not much talk of re-feeding which would prevent plateaus
                      5 - the obsession with COUNTING & LOWERING CALORIES! I thought the whole point of Paleo/Primal was to enjoy your food in adopting this lifestyle.

                      I'm getting the impression that weight loss can only be done by lowering calories, which I thought was counter-productive in the Primal lifestyle.

                      BTW - I also read thread on eating more fat which brought on this new thread.

                      All of the above is an objective observation with no malice intended...just concern.

                      I'm 50 yrs, 5'2"
                      CW 176 lbs
                      GW ?
                      Last edited by mmSuzyQ; 02-02-2013, 03:51 PM.

                      Comment


                      • mmSuzyQ,

                        Thank You for your concern. I have stated in the first post of both of the EMF threads that this is an extreme form of the Primal program and that newbies should not start here, but with the book. I however cannot make people obey, so all are welcome. We are eating Primal approved foods, but in different macro ranges.

                        Paleobird, who wrote the first EMF thread, has a seizure disorder and a cancer history and so chose to explore Nutritional Ketosis for health reasons. I have a binge eating disorder and a clotting disease which makes bingeing on sugar and carbs potentially deadly to me. Others on this thread have PCOS, thyroid problems etc.

                        In answer to your observations:I personally do not IF and am not a fan of the extreme calorie cutting that some jump into because NK makes one less hungry. I have always maintained getting enough calories is as important as hitting the fat goal. I eat a small amount of varied veg every day, but getting vegetables is not my focus. My protein level is in line with the PB recommendations. I actually did a refeed with sweet potato last night, just for fun, not out of necessity. It would be nice if it could be an intuitive way of eating for everyone. I think for most it is, but not for all. For me calories matter.

                        I would suggest that you start with the basic Primal Blueprint plan. I lost 65 lbs that way before my eating disorder kicked back in. Good Luck!
                        Last edited by Pebbles67; 02-02-2013, 04:21 PM.
                        Primal since 9/24/2010
                        "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

                        Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
                        MFP username: MDAPebbles67

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by mmSuzyQ View Post
                          Hi - I'm new to MDA & Primal/Paleo lifestyle. I got interested in changing my diet after reading The 4-Hr Body which promotes a slow-carb diet (hi-prot, lentils/legumes/veg/nuts/seeds/fats & no fruit). I just finished my 3rd week with stalled results (stopped doing cardio but did BodyPump to maintain muscle since starting & may have enjoyed cheat days a little too much), but have kept 5 lbs off since wk #1.

                          This is a great site (amongst others) with tons of great info & I'm now thinking of going Primal & omitting legumes & adding back small quantities of fruit.

                          After doing my research (something I always do before making the leap) and reading this particular thread in its entirety, I can't help but notice some common themes:

                          1 - Many of you seem to be too careful with lowering carbs too much (hardly any mention of veggies but for avocados)
                          2 - increasing fats to the detriment of protein (isn't the point of Primal to keep protein up for satiety & increase/maintain muscle - ditto for fats)
                          3 - a lot of IF to the point where it seems obssessive - would this not lower metabolism too much where body will hang on to fat slowing down weightloss
                          4 - not much talk of re-feeding which would prevent plateaus
                          5 - the obsession with COUNTING & LOWERING CALORIES! I thought the whole point of Paleo/Primal was to enjoy your food in adopting this lifestyle.

                          I'm getting the impression that weight loss can only be done by lowering calories, which I thought was counter-productive in the Primal lifestyle.

                          BTW - I also read thread on eating more fat which brought on this new thread.

                          All of the above is an objective observation with no malice intended...just concern.

                          I'm 50 yrs, 5'2"
                          CW 176 lbs
                          GW ?
                          thank you for your concern and reply. I am sure others will also address some of this as they see a need. A couple things that need to be clarified though are:

                          -We get our carbs through veggies-not just avocados. Many of us eat salads and such. Lower carb veggies are typically the veggies grown above ground. Although we like avocados because they aid in our getting our fat ratios.
                          -Mark does not shy away from fat. However many people think the fat ratios are high. Fat assists in satiation, not protein.
                          -I do not see people IFing to the point of obsession. Although there are many on MDA that swear by it and if it works for them?? Groovy.
                          -not sure why a re-feed would be necessary. I would think if you are wanting to keep your body in NK to lose, this would be bad.
                          -we are not calorie counting. Yes, calories figure in AND ARE IMPORTANT if you need to lose weight. We are more closely monitoring our macros of fat, carbs and protein in grams.

                          I hope this helps clarify a few things. There is a thread prior to this that has a lot more info I would invite you to investigate.
                          Karin


                          Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

                          What am I doing? Depends on the day.

                          Comment


                          • Hi SuzyQ,
                            Welcome! I'm not sure if your concern is for those of us doing EMF, or for yourself if you chose to eat this way.

                            I too recently began Primal eating, January 1st in hopes of finding a good balance of life/food/movement. In this month I have let go of grains, sugar, as well as six pounds I put on last fall. I do not do IF because it triggers diet mentality for me. I eat veggies, in quantity at least once a day. I don't slather fat on my food, but I do live eating avocados and meat and putting heavy cream in my coffee. The first two weeks primal I didn't shed an ounce. I added fat and shed six pounds in the last two weeks. Why does I work? I don't know.

                            I am at a healthy BMI, but I would like to be mid or low range on the BMI chart. I'm 62 and they say thinner can lead to longevity, so I'm in. I'm curious to see where this takes me. Last month I had movie popcorn one time. I'd say that 's a pretty big refeed.

                            I think that EMF is not for everyone. I certainly was skeptical. I feel good so I'm taking it day to day. You'll need to research and see what makes sense for you.

                            Comment


                            • mm - I had a lot of these same questions before I started this, and I imagine others do as well, so it's probably good to get our perspectives here - for you and others who may be wondering.

                              First, context, as Robb Wolf says, matters here. As Paula says, this is extreme and not necessary for most. My husband and mom do straight up Primal with spectacular results. If you don't need to go here, I probably wouldn't - not because I think it's harmful, it's just a bit more challenging in our society. For me personally, I think my history and medical issues have led me here.

                              In terms of your specific points:

                              Veggies - We might not discuss them much, but most of us get plenty of foliage. Fact of the matter, even on low carb, I'm getting more veggies in a day than most people I know, even my "vegetarian" friends. An interesting point, not really the subject of this thread, is the question of how many veggies we really need (and absorb), particularly if we eat "head to tail". I don't know the answer, and this isn't the place to discuss it, but something I've been thinking about.

                              Fat/Protein ratio - I think a main point of eating NK is to get sufficient but not excess protein. When calculating ratios, the starting point is carbs and protein - fat is the lever up and down.

                              IF - I hadn't noticed much of that here, but this thread moves so fast that miss pages a day. I think a natural result of NK is that a lot of people naturally fall into patterns of eating 1 or 2 or 3 times a day. To the extent this is natural and works for people, doesn't seem like it's a problem - it's in fact the desire of eating Primally to be able to listen to and respect your body. I personally am not there - I eat 3 square meals a day

                              Re-feeding - my own personal experience would say that "re-feeding" is bad new for me. It leads to cravings, binges, and significant weight gain. Eating well, eating clean, listening to my body - those things have worked well.

                              Calories - this is a tough one in the Primal world. From what I've read of all the Paleo/Primal "experts", not one of them says that calories don't count. []Guest Post: Robb Wolf Answers Your Paleo Diet Questions | Mark's Daily Apple HOWEVER, a lot of people can learn to "naturally" eat when they cut out all the junk that messes with their brain signals. That's the goal. My husband is one of those people. He'll never need to count a calorie - his body naturally tells him to stop, he can hear what his body says, and he (gasp) stops. I, on the other hand, have been overweight my entire life. I don't often hear my body when it says it is full (getting better though!) and I eat for reasons others than hunger. Also, while I actually have a pretty good idea of calories, I have no clue about protein and fat density. For folks like my husband, I don't think it matters. For metabolically deranged folks like me, it does.

                              I hate to harp on calories, but they do matter. They are not the ONLY factor and getting your macros right will get help you so that the calories work. Your past history, your job, your stress, your sleep, your activity, will all determine what's right. I'm not hungry. I don't feel like I'm starving. But, I did when I did WW and essentially ate the same calories.

                              One final note - and I don't personally like this - we are all different. What works for me may not work for you and I know doesn't work for my husband There are some basic building blocks we all follow, but at the end of the day, it's a great, big experiment to find what works for each of us.
                              -- Ruth

                              Comment


                              • My Fitness Pal & BMR I just discovered a major flaw in the way MFP calculates BMR. The calculator on the site only gives you your "coma calories" burn, and clearly says that daily activity is not counted. It then says that it's Mifflin-St joer calculation is more accurate than Harris Benedict. BUT the purpose of Harris Benedict is to calculate your activity calories. Somebody messed up.

                                MFP gives me 1765 BMR. I multiplied by 1.375 for less active days.
                                Min Daily Calorie need 2427
                                I choose to eat 1850 cals about 20% below. On heavy work out days up to 40% below

                                IMO everyone should at least eat enough to hit their base BMR without activity, though others I'm sure will disagree.

                                Harris Benedict tells us to multiply the base BMR by the following:
                                To determine your total daily calorie needs, multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:

                                If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
                                If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
                                If you are moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
                                If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
                                If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9
                                Last edited by Pebbles67; 02-02-2013, 05:42 PM.
                                Primal since 9/24/2010
                                "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

                                Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
                                MFP username: MDAPebbles67

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