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  • #31
    Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
    You are just looking for drama.
    You could have just searched for yourself and not started this thread.
    Im really not. We are taught to question conventional wisdom, whats wrong with questioning conventional primal wisdom?

    Originally posted by Dirlot View Post
    LOL.really??? So now you are saying if you are fat adapted you are NOT ketogenic....or is that what you numpty first post mentor claims?
    My question is pretty simple. I guess you have reading comprehension failure.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by peril View Post
      Only if you haven't broken your metabolism by years of abuse. If you have broken it, then you may not be able to access your fat stores. Rather you'll crash. And need carbs to recover. Then the only time you'll burn fat is when you're sleeping
      Another "die hard" myth! Everybody burn free fatty acids that either comes from food or from stored fat most of their time. Only when doing very hard work will the body burn mostly glucose that either comes from dietary carbs, from protein, from glycerol or from stored glycogen. The feeling of crashing is not due to running out of glucose though, but you can get some basic information on sugar crash or reactive hypoglycemia here:

      Reactive hypoglycemia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

      - Schopenhauer

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      • #33
        I think Zach's question is a legitimate one, and I have wondered about it myself, i.e., whether "fat adaptation" refers to an actual physiological change (where the body starts burning fat in preference to glucose). I have wondered whether there is a known scientific basis to this idea of fat adaptation. I think this is a legitimate topic of discussion and don't understand why some people are throwing a hissy fit.

        Now, I don't know the answer to the above questions. What I do know is that, as a runner, when I first went primal and reduced my carb intake to less than 100 g per day (I was eating close to 100g per day in the beginning--which isn't even that low in the grand scheme of things but seemed low at the time), running became really REALLY hard. And it was weird because it felt like my cardio conditioning had gone to hell, i.e., I was getting winded at an intensity that normally isn't hard for me. One would think that if my muscles aren't used to not have more glycogen around or whatever, that I would experience some kind of increased muscle fatigue, but that's not what happened. Cardio conditioning went to hell instead. (But would return to normal upon increased carb consumption.) Anyway, this went on for a very long time--it took me a long time to adapt, so to speak, because I wasn't always super strict. But eventually, one day, all of a sudden, I realized that running on very little carbs wasn't hard anymore. I don't know if that's fat adaptation, but it's definitely some kind of adaptation. I'm certainly not losing any body fat despite eating at a caloric deficit so if it is fat adaptation, then it's pretty lame.

        My journal

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        • #34
          Call it whatever you want, but I comfortably did my first IF yesterday (17.5hrs) without a crash. That isn't something I could do before going Primal. Something has changed for me that's for sure. I'm ok with calling it fat-adapted
          "It's a great life, if you don't weaken.". John Buchan

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          • #35
            Originally posted by itchy166 View Post
            Call it whatever you want, but I comfortably did my first IF yesterday (17.5hrs) without a crash. That isn't something I could do before going Primal. Something has changed for me that's for sure. I'm ok with calling it fat-adapted
            I agree. Maybe it's not "fat adapted" in a strictly literal sense of what the words would mean, but there is definitely some sort of "adaptation" that takes place when you match carbs to activity levels. I think whether you call it being "fat adapted" or not doesn't change the reality that something very positive is changing in our bodies.
            "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Zach View Post
              Im really not. We are taught to question conventional wisdom, whats wrong with questioning conventional primal wisdom?



              My question is pretty simple. I guess you have reading comprehension failure.
              Not at all....seems I saw right through you from the start.

              A simple question but you are unable to find the answer on your own?!?
              Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
              PS
              Don't forget to play!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by itchy166 View Post
                Call it whatever you want, but I comfortably did my first IF yesterday (17.5hrs) without a crash. That isn't something I could do before going Primal. Something has changed for me that's for sure. I'm ok with calling it fat-adapted
                There you go..... proofs in the pudding as they say!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Dirlot View Post
                  Not at all....seems I saw right through you from the start.

                  A simple question but you are unable to find the answer on your own?!?
                  You are such a angry little man. Eat some carbs, itll put a smile on your face and some pump in your muscles!




                  Ok so it looks like the answer was what i thought all along, that these are just catch phrases to hype the diet. No real scientific backing. People seem to just like saying it to make themselves feel good.

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                  • #39
                    [QUOTE=Zach;1080004]You are such a angry little man. Eat some carbs, itll put a smile on your face and some pump in your muscles!




                    Ok so it looks like the answer was what i thought all along, that these are just catch phrases to hype the diet. No real scientific backing. People seem to just like saying it to make themselves feel good.[/QUOTET]

                    Typical response of the numpty crowd.
                    Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
                    PS
                    Don't forget to play!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      A few months ago I was explaining the sugar burning vs fat burning thing to someone when I realised it sounded like quackery...

                      Then I started looking into metabolism and read that due to beta oxidation we continuously burn fats, even when using sugar as a main source of fuel. Gorbag said it all already.

                      Originally posted by itchy166 View Post
                      Call it whatever you want, but I comfortably did my first IF yesterday (17.5hrs) without a crash. That isn't something I could do before going Primal. Something has changed for me that's for sure. I'm ok with calling it fat-adapted
                      You know, I had the same experience - I could not fast to save my life before I discovered Paleo. And I had pretty severe hypoglycemic reactions. When I went LC and VLC I was suddenly able to fast, and used that as empirical evidence that one could be a "fat burner". However, I still had hypoglycemic reactions. Surely if I was a fat burner this wouldn't have happened?

                      Over the last two months I transitioned back to moderate / high carb, and guess what? No hypoglycemia, and I can fast! What gives?

                      The elimination of gluten is the only constant in my case, so I'm going to blame everything on that
                      "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                      In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                      - Ray Peat

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                      • #41
                        EMF 4 is going to hit this topic squarely between the eyes.........time to show you the biochemical pathway paleo forgets.....

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                        • #42
                          Zach, you are now the expert it seems! So now we all get to question your logic and wisdom.

                          If you put your head above the parapet you get shot at!

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                            Over the last two months I transitioned back to moderate / high carb, and guess what? No hypoglycemia, and I can fast! What gives?

                            The elimination of gluten is the only constant in my case, so I'm going to blame everything on that
                            I've never been LC by primal standards and over time, fasting has gotten easier and easier. I have no idea why.

                            Gluten seems like a great scapegoat! But I still have something with gluten a couple times a month, so maybe I'll have to look further.
                            50yo, 5'3"
                            SW-195
                            CW-125, part calorie counting, part transition to primal
                            GW- Goals are no longer weight-related

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                            • #44
                              I actually have been avoiding the carb wars and other such nonsense on purpose, but I'll post a quicky here.

                              Of course there is a degree of marketing involved. The message needs to be "simple enough for a fifth grader" is a common statement in marketing. So inherent to that is some oversimplification of the processes involved. No big deal really. The simplification is not incorrect...it's just subject to people such as yourself and those of this board pointing out the glaringly obvious fact that "its not that simple".

                              I think OP already knows the other answers. Its common knowledge and not really even contested that if you eat more of one macro to the exclusion of another then metabolic pathways shift to utilizing that macro to meet proportionately larger amounts of your energy demands. So the short answer is yes eating more fat and less carbs upregulates fat burning metabolism. That really isn't the debatable portion...the part that OP and any other person eating higher carb might wish to debate is if and how this shift may improve ones health. But, that wasn't the OP's question so.....
                              Last edited by Neckhammer; 02-01-2013, 08:30 AM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                                I actually have been avoiding the carb wars and other such nonsense on purpose, but I'll post a quicky here.

                                Of course there is a degree of marketing involved. The message needs to be "simple enough for a fifth grader" is a common statement in marketing. So inherent to that is some oversimplification of the processes involved. No big deal really. The simplification is not incorrect...it's just subject to people such as yourself and those of this board pointing out the glaringly obvious fact that "its not that simple".

                                I think OP already knows the other answers. Its common knowledge and not really even contested that if you eat more of one macro to the exclusion of another then metabolic pathways shift to utilizing that macro to meet proportionately larger amounts of your energy demands. So the short answer is yes eating more fat and less carbs upregulates fat burning metabolism. That really isn't the debatable portion...the part that OP and any other person eating higher carb might wish to debate is if and how this shift may improve ones health. But, that wasn't the OP's question so.....
                                Well said

                                What do you think about the fasting thing NH?
                                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                                - Ray Peat

                                Comment

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