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  • #31
    I have binged VERY BADLY several times up til recently. This involves feeling so nauseous, with stomach literally hurting from so much food, but still searching for food to eat and eating when there is a little trickle room left over. The first time this happened it was ~2500 calories, when I was a 107 pound weakling. Second, to somewhere around 10th time it happened, it was ~3500 calories, when I was around 120-130 pounds. I binged once or twice afterward, where I ate over 4000 calories and around my current weight, 150-160 pounds.

    But now, I have done a 36 hour IF where I eat 5000 calories afterward and feel fine
    My chocolatey Primal journey

    Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

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    • #32
      For me, at least one difference between a binge and overeating is one of control. Thanksgiving and other holidays are ones where some of us plan to overeat, and even plan to eat foods we don't keep in our homes anymore. Some of us even have a plan for when that day is over; IF, go back to normal PB eating, etc. Some do a fast before the day. We enjoy this day, aware that we are in control and will flip off the food as party switch tomorrow.

      I think a binge arises from an emotional something we don't acknowledge. A hurt, emotional pain, self-loathing, etc. We cook more spaghetti than one person should ever eat and cover it with butter and salt. We hit a drugstore and buy bags of candy and eat them before the day is out. We don't enjoy these. They are rarely about anything healthy, and like alcohol or drugs, we haven't addressed the issue and are fully aware that it will happen again.

      Anyway, just my POV. Overeating isn't a bad thing, especially if balanced with days of undereating (in a healthy adult). Bingeing, like blackout drinking or cutting, releases endorphins, but the crash is miserable.

      ETA: Knifegill, I have a friend who quit drinking without meetings, etc. He just knew that kind of "therapy" wasn't for him. He hasn't been sober as long as you, but I'm fairly sure he's sober for good. One day he said he wasn't going to drink any more, and he didn't. As a note, he'd been drunk almost daily for over seven years prior to that day.
      Last edited by JoanieL; 01-29-2013, 09:56 PM.
      "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

      B*tch-lite

      Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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      • #33
        Isnt this just being weak willed? I mean does something literally take over your body and force food down your throat? Im seriously asking here. I have never understood compulsions like this when you have the ability to stop at any time. Even things like smoking and drinking, seems just like a weakness but that is atleast a drug. Is there actually a psychological reason why some people cant stop eating or are they just caving in to their own weak will?

        Not trying to rile anyone, just wondering what you all that have had it happen think.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Zach View Post
          Isnt this just being weak willed? I mean does something literally take over your body and force food down your throat? Im seriously asking here. I have never understood compulsions like this when you have the ability to stop at any time. Even things like smoking and drinking, seems just like a weakness but that is atleast a drug. Is there actually a psychological reason why some people cant stop eating or are they just caving in to their own weak will?

          Not trying to rile anyone, just wondering what you all that have had it happen think.
          No. You don't understand so don't try.

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          • #35
            Yes it is like something takes over you.
            Its not a weakness, its just something, I can't explain it. But I have stopped doing it now, but when I tried in the past it was not possible to stop.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Zach View Post
              Isnt this just being weak willed? I mean does something literally take over your body and force food down your throat? Im seriously asking here. I have never understood compulsions like this when you have the ability to stop at any time. Even things like smoking and drinking, seems just like a weakness but that is atleast a drug. Is there actually a psychological reason why some people cant stop eating or are they just caving in to their own weak will?

              Not trying to rile anyone, just wondering what you all that have had it happen think.
              Food can have effects similar to drugs, such as how wheat can bind to opioid receptors and stimulate over consumption. This can cause you to overeat, even when you know you have already had enough. Sugar can have a similar effect on some people. Think how many people can react to dried fruit like it is crack. You know you have had enough, but you must have more anyway.

              Also, emotional issues can trigger binging. If you have unresolved psychological problems and emotional problems due to past events, you can turn to food as a way to kill the pain and you just keep eating and eating even though you have already eaten our fill. You are full, but the pain you are suffering from is still there, so you continue to dull the pain by continuing to eat and eat and eat.

              If the still doesn't help you get it, then I suggest you not try because as you mentioned, you could easily rile up some intense emotions by saying the wrong things.
              "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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              • #37
                Because I'm tougher on myself than anyone on the planet has ever been to me, I have to say that at least a component is weak willed. But then again, I don't think addictions should be classified as diseases. I have my addictions and if I accept the disease model, then I not only give myself an out, but I accept a weakness of my spirit and will that I'm reluctant to do.

                That said, no one is perfect, and the road to success is rarely a straight line. People shouldn't hate themselves when they fall off any wagon. They should (mentally) brush themselves off and climb back on. Failure is thinking, "Crap, I ate a bag of candy. I might as well give up and eat candy all month." Successful is thinking, "That bag of candy is gonna set me back. I'll walk an extra 15 minutes a day this month, or maybe forever because it's good for me."
                "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                B*tch-lite

                Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                  Food can have effects similar to drugs, such as how wheat can bind to opioid receptors and stimulate over consumption. This can cause you to overeat, even when you know you have already had enough. Sugar can have a similar effect on some people. Think how many people can react to dried fruit like it is crack. You know you have had enough, but you must have more anyway.

                  Also, emotional issues can trigger binging. If you have unresolved psychological problems and emotional problems due to past events, you can turn to food as a way to kill the pain and you just keep eating and eating even though you have already eaten our fill. You are full, but the pain you are suffering from is still there, so you continue to dull the pain by continuing to eat and eat and eat.

                  If the still doesn't help you get it, then I suggest you not try because as you mentioned, you could easily rile up some intense emotions by saying the wrong things.
                  Good answer.

                  Zach, tbh out of all people I'm really surprised that you would say something like that. Considering how often you mention orthorexia I would have thought you understood that obsession drives a lot of dietary choices. Orthorexia and binging are the opposite sides of the same coin - one is about having control, the other is about losing it.

                  Out of interest, would you tell someone who was depressed that they just need to "think positive"?
                  "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                  In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                  - Ray Peat

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                    I don't think addictions should be classified as diseases. I have my addictions and if I accept the disease model, then I not only give myself an out, but I accept a weakness of my spirit and will that I'm reluctant to do
                    I totally agree - they are not diseases. An addiction is the way deeply sensitive people cope with their feelings of self hatred. Less sensitive people deal with their uncomfortable emotions by projecting out into the world (ie. going around being jerks).
                    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                    - Ray Peat

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I think one necessary but not sufficient condition for binge eating is being alone. At least, you would be an interesting social specimen if you could achieve that truly out-of-control feeling with other people present.

                      We can check our intuitions on this with competitive eaters. Ridiculous quantity to time ratio of food ingested, but zero negative emotional attachment and the intention is actually to share and celebrate the experience. My guess is most of you don't want to call that a binge.

                      On the other end though -- an anorexic perceiving a small amount of food as a binge -- I don't think that's properly called a binge. An objectively large amount of food being consumed is another precondition, and while "large" is vague, you at least have to define it relative to objective stats about the person, and not relative to their own disordered perceptions. (At least I think we wouldn't want to say that the anorexic who feels out-of-control eating a handful of saltines actually has binge-eating disorder)

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                      • #41
                        Getting into calorie counting made me start bingeing. I never ever had a problem with it before. Using My Fitness Pal was just about the worst thing I could have ever done for myself. It's taking time to put it right. Proper nutrition, exercise, getting enough sleep, and quitting on the self-hating.

                        One thing I did find out later was that a lot of my binge foods were dairy, and I have since discovered an intolerance to the stuff after cutting it out for a month, reintroducing it and experiencing a lot of, ahem, digestive distress. Milk chocolate was a particular binge food, and I always thought it was the sugar, but I think it was actually the milk component.

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                        • #42
                          I believe binging is about the feelings that come during or after. For me, binge eating is purely emotional, I use food to numb and stuff down feelings. I also restrict food to control my feelings and give a superficial sense of control over my life, which is just an illusion. The food and the binging is just a symptom for me of distorted thinking and mental illness. I'm anorexic but I swing into binge eating after restricting. I'm in a sugar binge at the moment and it's a desperate place to be.

                          Binging is not about an quantity. I ate 5 cookies last night and felt suicidal afterwards. I'm not sure I've ever eaten until my stomach hurt or I couldn't move, but I would classify my life as ransomed by my binge eating.

                          It has nothing to do with will-power or weakness. And I do believe in the 'disease' model, if disease means mental illness. Addictions are mental illnesses. I am a recovering alcoholic, clean and sober in AA for over 10 years. I accept my alcoholism as a mental illness and that I can never safely drink again. If I could have one beer (which I have never wanted to, I want to drink beer until I am smashed) then I would not be an alcoholic. There is peace in accepting that. I cannot drink and I strive to stay away from alcohol one day at a time for the rest of my life. Food is tricky, I have to eat. I have been going to OA for some time, but have made little progress over a year. I hate food right now, I hate that I need it and that I cannot control it.

                          In my opinion, binging is about suffering. A handful of grapes can be a binge if I am restricting. There are some offensive ideas about EDs, addictions and binging on this thread. Good for you if you've never suffered from a mental illness, enjoy your life and your freedom. Maybe best not to judge until you have trodden in the addict's footprints.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                            Good answer.

                            Zach, tbh out of all people I'm really surprised that you would say something like that. Considering how often you mention orthorexia I would have thought you understood that obsession drives a lot of dietary choices. Orthorexia and binging are the opposite sides of the same coin - one is about having control, the other is about losing it.

                            Out of interest, would you tell someone who was depressed that they just need to "think positive"?
                            My orthorexia came from an overload of information, not from any psychological fear or emotion. I have also smoked for years and givin it up without a second thought and regularaly drink 2-3 drinks when friends have 10+. So no i honestly dont understand the compulsion. And to be honest at least a percent of people i think actually just have a lack of control that they like to blame on something else to feel better. No doubt thought that some people cannot control it. I saw my step brother spiral out of control with alcohol and grow more and more alike his father who was a horrible person so part of it might be genetics or something too.

                            I apalogize if my first post came off rude. Thanks for some good answers.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Zach View Post
                              at least a percent of people i think actually just have a lack of control that they like to blame on something else to feel better. No doubt thought that some people cannot control it.

                              DAMN YOU, MOTHERFUCKING DONUTS!!!! It's all your fault for being so darned delicious


                              That kind of blame?

                              Seriously though, there's a big difference between habits, dependency and addiction. Habits and dependency are like crutches; addiction is like a cancer rotting you from inside. For most of my twenties I smoked every day, drank, took a lot of drugs. I gave up smoking without even trying, went a year without drinking cos' I just didn't want to (now i'll have a few drinks a week), and got sick of the party scene so stopped taking drugs. Why was it so easy for me to give up those things? I was socially dependent on them, but not addicted to them. Big difference.

                              I can't speak for every addict in the world, but I think those who know they have a problem only blame themselves, and carry a lot of guilt and self loathing, which continues to fuel the depression (because that's what's lying under the addcition. The addiction is just an escape). And most addicts will tell you that they want to stop, but one can never stop until they face what's hiding beneath the addiction. And that is usually a pretty dark, scarey place, and you're lucky that you don't have that lurking inside you.

                              Those who don't realise they have a problem are another matter, and maybe your step bro is like this? It makes sense that if you've got an alcoholic in your family that you find people like us frustrating but maybe this thread is shedding some light into it.
                              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                              - Ray Peat

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                              • #45
                                I think that many alcoholics see it as this: They have incredible willpower. They probably have more willpower than most people. The problem is, willpower isn't how you quit binging on alcohol or on food. Your will is the problem. That's why when they finally accept powerlessness over the problem and completely give up they're finally on the way toward recovery. I don't think everyone has to go to AA to figure this out, either. Some people can just let go and stop trying so hard and the problem just loses its grip on you.

                                I also agree with you Knifegill that you can be cured. They said the same stuff in Al-Anon, that you have to keep coming back forever because it's like peeling away the onion. After a year I felt completely fixed and I've never been in a relationship with another alcoholic ever again. I don't attract them anymore, either. They can't find in me the thing they need and I can't find in them the thing I need. And I no longer can attend an Al-Anon meeting and feel like I belong there. I still recommend it highly to anyone in need, but I'm just not in need anymore.
                                Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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