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How My Primal Instincts Led Me to... Veganism

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  • #61
    Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
    i still prefer animals to people for the most part, but it's not all bunnies out there :/
    And even the bunnies...well...


    Sorry, I had to go there .
    Depression Lies

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    • #62
      Originally posted by quikky View Post
      I agree with your general premise, however I don't think just because something is against our nature is disgraceful. If you want to be really natural, you probably don't want monogamy, or even consensual sex (if you're a male). I doubt Grok had a romantic courtship with Ms. Grok before the sex. I don't know how common rape was back in the pre-historic times, but I doubt an alpha Grok in his tribe asked permission before ravaging the female of his choice. Certainly they had sexual urges like us, and considering the males were naturally stronger than the females, there must have been a good deal of forced sex going on.



      Is it also disgraceful if we deny this part of our nature?
      WTF! Rape compaired to dietary choices?

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      • #63
        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
        I find moral vegetarianism/veganism to be "disgraceful" because it absolutely sends the message: "If you eat meat, you are not as good as me." To be a moral vegetarian/vegan, you are saying that people that do not ignore human nature are not good. Every single ethical vegetarian/vegan on planet Earth looks down upon people that eat meat. They must - it is a requirement of being a moral vegetarian/vegan. They could be your absolute closest lifelong friend. They still look down upon you for existing as a human should exist and not finding the willpower to resist nature at the expense of your own health and well-being. The lifestyle comes with a built-in self-righteous attitude. You have to have a self-righteous God complex to believe you are above Mother Nature.

        Those that do it for health reasons, I can't really blame them. They're just severely misinformed and I feel bad for them. They're worth saving.

        Note that this is much different from purchasing quality-sourced meats. CAFOs are horrible places. If you have qualms eating conventional meats, I can completely understand that. However, doing your best to purchase meat from animals raised and slaughtered humanly is a far car from looking down upon human nature as some kind of ethical superior.
        You're kind of stretching it there. Sure, there are plenty of vegetarians/vegans with the "I'm better than a meat eater" attitude. However, there are also those that don't consume animals for moral reasons without condemning those that do - I've met one personally. You can be moral about something on a non-judgemental personal level.

        Also, as I previously exemplified, why is it bad to be "above Mother Nature" in some cases? Sex is the perfect example of why it is indeed better to be above nature. Almost every man out there would love to have sex with tons of women of his choice - it's simply in our nature. My animal instincts want me to spread my DNA as many times as possible, they don't want me to ask permission and get consent. Do I have a "self-righteous God complex" if I think I am above this?

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        • #64
          evil, fluffy bunnies....

          beautiful
          yeah you are

          Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
          lol

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          • #65
            Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
            And even the bunnies...well...


            Sorry, I had to go there .
            1...2...5

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            • #66
              Originally posted by whitebear View Post
              WTF! Rape compaired to dietary choices?
              The conversation was about whether ignoring our nature is disgraceful. Rape is an example.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by quikky View Post
                The conversation was about whether ignoring our nature is disgraceful. Rape is an example.
                but was it the FIRST thing that came to mind?
                beautiful
                yeah you are

                Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                lol

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
                  but was it the FIRST thing that came to mind?
                  It was the first thing that came to mind that was a strong example of why ignoring nature can be a good thing.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                    Modern dairy operations will impregnate the dairy cows with artificial insemination and often they will do it while the cow is still lactating, which is supposed to actually be really bad for the hormone profile of the resulting milk.
                    No, it is normal for a cow to be nursing a calf when she is bred back. They have a long gestation that is not demanding until near the end. I have beef cows right now that are both bred and still feeding their previous calves, though I'd rather they'd wean them at this point. Reason being I'd like them to fatten out a bit before they calve again. This is because they don't get supplement feed like a milk cow does.

                    If you did t milk a cow when bred you'd end up milking them 3 or less months a year. They'd get fat.
                    Last edited by AshleyL; 01-25-2013, 07:24 PM.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Zach
                      Douche.
                      Real class

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                      • #71
                        If you're OK with meat-eating, per se, you could also just put a lot more effort into finding the real deal that won't give you any qualms. Maybe make a trip out of driving a long distance to a farm. We don't all have farmer's markets with reliable meat vendors to visit every week, but why go vegan out of convenience? I mean you can even buy meat on the internet! It doesn't even have to be a staple of your diet... Putting money towards supporting responsible practices is a far better statement than withholding your dollars. I think people who go so far as veganism to protest a cruel industry are commendable, but misguided.

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                        • #72
                          If our OP has not already seen this, I thought I would post a similar argument as posed at the Ancestral Health Symposium in 2011: "Ancestral nutrition: An alternative approach" by Don Matesz, MA, MS on Vimeo

                          The presenter went very high in meat and then said he felt lousy. He doesn't posit the lousy feeling on a lack of carbs, a lack of starch or anything that most people would consider the traditional argument for "why high fat diets are bad." He seems to base his arguement on the fact that he was lacking certain key nutrients and he was extremely low in antioxidants. Adding back vegetables in large quantities, eating leafy greens, fruits, flowers, nuts, ect. he says raised his levels of these key compounds in his body which reversed a lot of bad symptoms he was experiencing.

                          It sounds like he went almost totally vegan for a while but then slowly, added back a (very) minimal amount of animal products. The drastic increase in vegetable and plant matter consumption, he says, allowed him to add these animal products back because within the context of a diet low in antioxidants, animal products cause a lot of damaging oxidative stress, but in the context of a very high antioxidant and nutrient rich diet, animal products can be minimally incorporated for their beneficial amino acid profiles. But without this high level of antioxidants in the diet, animal products do more harm than good.

                          I hope I am interpreting this right. He uses, as most vegans and vegetarians would, apes as his primary evidence to support his argument. He talks about eating meat because chimps DO eat meat, but of course they eat very little of it and only in times where plant matter is more difficult to come by. This is probably why he decided to reincorporate some small amount of animal foods.
                          "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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                          • #73
                            YOu missed a point about chickens- they are not forced to lay eggs or impregnated. They just do. If you can find pastured chickens, all you are killing is the bugs they eat. And there are good people in this world. The lady I buy my meat and eggs from is a good person. I talk to her, she is sincere, invites me to the farm.

                            It;s all good....just don't let yourself skew holier than thou. It doesn't make you better or more moral than your fellow man because you are a vegan. I've met and known many a vegan who excused all sorts of bad behavior by playing their vegan card.... they justified it as a means to judge. Bothered the living hell out of me when I was vegan.

                            http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                            Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                            • #74
                              The lifestyle comes with a built-in self-righteous attitude. You have to have a self-righteous God complex to believe you are above Mother Nature.
                              This....
                              And a lot of those people aren't above misinformation. I remember my last straw was a vegan who took issue with my horse. The cruelty I was invoking by being her master. And I was like WTF? My horse could kill or trample me at any time. She could easily jump the fence and run away. Instead, she wanders up to me looking food and pets. She was telling my boyfriend how horses are regularly beaten.... it was bizarre to see someone so certain about something they had actually no clue about.

                              http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                              Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
                                IMO Animals possess something humans too often lack: a sense of what really matters in life.
                                Animals are really just concerned with eating, fucking, sleeping, and shitting. Probably in that order. I agree that doing those things proficently are among the things that matter in life and if humans were better at those four things, I think our lives would be much happier and healthier. But I don't think animals have a 'sense' about what they're doing...they act on instinct, based on what is programmed into their genes.

                                So why not support some local ethical farms who let their animals eat, fuck, sleep, and shit in the happiest, healthiest ways, followed by a much faster and more humane death than nature would ever provide. Animals in the wild do not live to be 'old and happy'. Once they aren't on top of their game, something comes along and rips out their flesh, bite by bite, with sharp teeth. That's not my idea of a happy ending.
                                Last edited by BestBetter; 01-25-2013, 06:45 PM.

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