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How My Primal Instincts Led Me to... Veganism

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  • #31
    Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Really nicely said. OP - listen up. This is someone who gets it. I sincerely hope you get it some day too.
    Thanks for the kind words. I kind of cut it off in mid flow I think.

    One thing that really strikes me, and that I and the OP would probably agree, is the disconnect with the animals we eat, for most people. I believe that everyone should be prepared to take a life if they wish to subsist on it. Too many kids eating chicken nuggets who have no idea about the life that was given (if indeed, there is any chicken in it:-) )

    I really believe that we need to go backwards before moving forwards, to overcome those disconnects and take our place in the world in a more mindful way. If that means showing kids (and their parents) films like Food Inc or taking them to farms on school trips to see animals being born, living, and even dying, it might just make people think a little about what they eat, and where it comes from. If people realised that they needed to find grass fed, well cared for animals, the prices would come down as demand increased and the feed lots would lose trade. Perhaps some might even convert their contaminated, filthy land and businesses to a more holistic way of animal production.

    Perhaps a dream, but I really believe that this primal/paleo/real food movement can change the world, we just need to see ourselves as guerillas, doing all we can to affect change in our own small way, in our localities and with our friends.

    There, got that out of my system, have a good day!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
      @PureFunctionalFitness, I've been trying to cut down my intake of products from central America, and I don't eat wheat, soy, or corn. Organic rice is the only commodity crop I eat, and to be honest, I would like to one day grow my own food and know for certain that I am not inflicting suffering on anyone. I wouldn't say man is at the top of the food chain, either. Tell that to lions, sharks...

      Also, I stopped eating quinoa awhile ago, but I did see that increased demand for it is hurting Peruvians, so I'm glad I did. I try to support a local health market that sells organic grains in bulk. None of us is a perfect citizen of the planet but we each have our own perception of what it means to be one and what we can do to get closer to that.
      Re top of food chain, we are perhaps not able to overcome those creatures in a head to head match, but our intelligence and ability to use weapons, strategies etc, make us the most deadly predator on the planet IMHO. Look at tigers, on the verge of extinction in some places thanks to us

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      • #33
        Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
        @Rich: No, it isn't. I don't know what kind of soil its grown in, only that it's certified organic (and who knows if that means anything? The USDA doesn't care about us...)
        So back to my earlier point. Denying that there's animal death on your plate doesn't change the facts. You're eating less nourishing food that very likely requires more animal pain, suffering, and death than the meat that many of us eat.

        Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
        My goal is to have a small footprint on this planet. I believe humans were given intelligence not so that we could force other animals to bow down to us but so that we could realize how cruel it was to do so. I do minimal cardio these days, a lot of yoga, and that allows me to get by on less food--which seems is a kind goal on a planet where many don't have enough to eat.
        You have some immature, cartoonish view of the food chain that isn't anything like what happens in real life. Everything lives on others' deaths. If you feel so guilty about causing death and pain in order that you live, let a lion or a shark eat you. Hiding behind lies about what died to get lettuce on your plate doesn't give you any moral high ground to stand on.

        Or you can accept that another's turn has to end for yours to continue. And that some day, your turn will be over, and that it will allow another to have theirs. True reverence is the ethical choice, not denial and lies.
        The Champagne of Beards

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        • #34
          Originally posted by PureFunctionalFitness View Post
          Re top of food chain, we are perhaps not able to overcome those creatures in a head to head match, but our intelligence and ability to use weapons, strategies etc, make us the most deadly predator on the planet IMHO. Look at tigers, on the verge of extinction in some places thanks to us
          If anything, humanity's impact on the planet is a sign of our lack of intelligence. IMO Animals possess something humans too often lack: a sense of what really matters in life.

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          • #35
            As a pure vegan you are directly and indirectly responsible for the loss of more life, both from the plant and animal kingdom, than any pure carnivorous on this planet, just saying…
            "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

            - Schopenhauer

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            • #36
              IMO Animals possess something humans too often lack: a sense of what really matters in life.
              Hoo boy. And with that, I'm out.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                So back to my earlier point. Denying that there's animal death on your plate doesn't change the facts. You're eating less nourishing food that very likely requires more animal pain, suffering, and death than the meat that many of us eat.



                You have some immature, cartoonish view of the food chain that isn't anything like what happens in real life. Everything lives on others' deaths. If you feel so guilty about causing death and pain in order that you live, let a lion or a shark eat you. Hiding behind lies about what died to get lettuce on your plate doesn't give you any moral high ground to stand on.

                Or you can accept that another's turn has to end for yours to continue. And that some day, your turn will be over, and that it will allow another to have theirs. True reverence is the ethical choice, not denial and lies.
                I will reiterate that it is unnecessary death I seek to avoid. The lion has to kill the zebra. I'm not convinced that modern, sedentary man needs much in the way of nourishment, given that the ticket to food these days isn't chasing wild game but (for the more fortunate among us) extended sitting and computer usage.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
                  If anything, humanity's impact on the planet is a sign of our lack of intelligence. IMO Animals possess something humans too often lack: a sense of what really matters in life.
                  It is true, a good belly rub/scratch could save the world.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
                    If anything, humanity's impact on the planet is a sign of our lack of intelligence. IMO Animals possess something humans too often lack: a sense of what really matters in life.
                    And the sense not to deny their own instincts. Wolves don't feel guilt about taking a deer.
                    The Champagne of Beards

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Zach
                      Douche.
                      It's just the truth.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
                        If anything, humanity's impact on the planet is a sign of our lack of intelligence. IMO Animals possess something humans too often lack: a sense of what really matters in life.
                        I agree with you on the last point.

                        Regarding intelligence, it does not mean we lack it if we don't use it properly, or for material gains and the exploitation of others. I think your ideology is perfectly valid, and I respect it a lot, but I also believe that for optimal health, meat is central to our diet, and we have evolved to eat it. This is just the way it is, and most meat eaters keep it to themselves, don't judge others etc. Unfortunately for the vegan and vegetarian communities, there is a very vocal, angry, hating section, that will not let others live their lives without vilification. It needs to be a two way street, if we worked together on the 'real food' issue, we could save millions of lives, and make the lives of those that were taken much happier along the line.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                          As a pure vegan you are directly and indirectly responsible for the loss of more life, both from the plant and animal kingdom, than any pure carnivorous on this planet, just saying…
                          I mean, if you want to look at it that way, we can quibble over whether showering is immoral because it kills bacteria... I think a lot of the diseases that plague mankind may be the result of our mistreatment of animals, or our willingness to allow others to mistreat them if it means we get to eat bacon.

                          Nowhere did I say I'm perfect. Just that my instincts have led me away from eating the way I was eating. I guarantee you there are people who read this forum who eat things like "organic" yogurt and factory-farmed meat on a daily basis. Maybe my post will make them think twice. If it does, I feel it was worth it.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
                            I will reiterate that it is unnecessary death I seek to avoid. The lion has to kill the zebra. I'm not convinced that modern, sedentary man needs much in the way of nourishment, given that the ticket to food these days isn't chasing wild game but (for the more fortunate among us) extended sitting and computer usage.
                            Actually the more fortunate among us don't have to sit in front of a computer, have a physically demanding career, and have the skills to hunt, trap, catch and grow our own food.
                            "It's a great life, if you don't weaken.". John Buchan

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
                              I will reiterate that it is unnecessary death I seek to avoid.
                              No, you seek to avoid ACKNOWLEDGING said death.

                              Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
                              The lion has to kill the zebra. I'm not convinced that modern, sedentary man needs much in the way of nourishment, given that the ticket to food these days isn't chasing wild game but (for the more fortunate among us) extended sitting and computer usage.
                              So quit the death-inducing veganism and become a breatharian. I'm joining those that are "out"
                              The Champagne of Beards

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by itchy166 View Post
                                Actually the more fortunate among us don't have to sit in front of a computer, have a physically demanding career, and have the skills to hunt, trap, catch and grow our own food.
                                *shrug* I had a more physically demanding job before this one. I prefer the computer.

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