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How My Primal Instincts Led Me to... Veganism

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  • I haven't read through every post, but just want to say I agree with what Chaco said way back: moral veganism is an inherently jugemental choice. And because I'm a judgemental person myself, let me just say that I judge vegans for judging me. How dare they! Vegans are awful people. Did I mention I was judgemental?

    Now it's true that the odd vegan may appear nice. Vegans tend to be well-educated (if misinformed) and conscious about how they present themselves to the world, so a certain clever skillfullness in hiding their true thoughts can be expected. In other words, the vegan may not come right out and say what a selfish oaf you (the meat-eating "friend") are. It may serve the vegan's purposes to remain quiet.

    But let's be logical. How many people believe eating animals is wrong, but only for them personally--and that the rest of humanity gets a free pass? I can't believe it. Do you really think I'm wrong? Are vegans just masochists who acknowledge how tasty and nutritious meat is but don't think they deserve good eatin'? Hardly. Nope, deep in their dark souls they believe that not eating meat is a morally superior position, for themselves AND everyone else, and therefore can't help but feel morally superior to those who come to different conclusions. Even if they don't bother to say so out loud.

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    • Personally I have a bit more sympathy with the plants since they have no legs to escape the herbivores and must be eaten alive with no possibility of escape! Scientist have measured that plants are sensible to dangers like fire or herbivore animals, so the vegans should be ashamed of their hypocrisy when they are gobbling down their green salads! My personal ethics on the other hand is flawless though, since I don’t distinguish or make any apartheidious differences between the various forms of life, but eat everything that comes in my way like a die-hard omnivore should do…
      "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

      - Schopenhauer

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      • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
        Personally I have a bit more sympathy with the plants since they have no legs to escape the herbivores and must be eaten alive with no possibility of escape! Scientist have measured that plants are sensible to dangers like fire or herbivore animals, so the vegans should be ashamed of their hypocrisy when they are gobbling down their green salads! My personal ethics on the other hand is flawless though, since I don’t distinguish or make any apartheidious differences between the various forms of life, but eat everything that comes in my way like a die-hard omnivore should do…
        Broccoli is innocent. Look into a cow's eyes. It is ready to die.

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        • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
          Broccoli is innocent. Look into a cow's eyes. It is ready to die.
          Looking into the eyes of a cow I can't see much more than two ontological zero's, there is nothing even close to a soul in them! A cow have a higher value than a broccoli only because it has more calories...
          "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

          - Schopenhauer

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          • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
            How is disagreeing with a conventional wisdom/so-called authority analagous to denying our nature? I don't see the connection at all.
            I agree that primal eating is our nature, but that's an opinion. Vegans think that our nature is to be compassionate enough to evolve away from our savage past and stop eating animals.
            "Don't go in there, General, it's a trap! That's a grain chamber. It makes people like you into people like me."

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            • Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
              I agree that primal eating is our nature, but that's an opinion. Vegans think that our nature is to be compassionate enough to evolve away from our savage past and stop eating animals.
              Vegans believe a lot of things. Many of them believe we are naturally herbivores, and have only recently been corrupted into eating meat.

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              • Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
                I agree that primal eating is our nature, but that's an opinion.
                No, that's not an opinion. It's an interpretation of evidence that is subject to refining as further data become available. That's not the same thing.

                Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
                Vegans think that our nature is to be compassionate enough to evolve away from our savage past and stop eating animals.
                This sentence misuses both the words "nature" and "evolve" to attempt to justify the very behavior I find offensive.

                Claiming (or simply behaving as if) the way we are isn't good enough, and that they can do/be "better" by denying the way we're built (rumen-free, single-stomached large-brained animals with canine teeth and salivary amylase - omnivores by any measure) is a valid reason to find offense with veganism.

                Add the fact that the vegan mindset is inherently disingenuous about the ecological destruction and suffering occurs as a result of the monocrop agriculture that fills the bulk of the vegan plate, and it's downright villainy.

                I can't speculate on how often Mark Sisson reads or is advised of the shenanigans we get up to in these forums, but I didn't think it was a total coincidence that he re-linked to his entry for the NY Times article on the ethics of eating meat in the latest edition of Weekend Link Love.
                The Champagne of Beards

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                • Rich, I think I love you.
                  A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                  Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

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                  • Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                    Just had to share this:

                    "The Dalai Lama experimented with vegetarianism once, but after getting jaundice, his doctors advised him to return to eating meat. This became controversial when he visited the White House and was offered a vegetarian menu, he rejected it and replied 'I'm a Tibetan monk, not a vegetarian'.

                    If eating meat is good enough for the DL, it's good enough for me

                    As a witness to Tibetan Buddhism practitioners, I find this A HUGE HYPOCRICY from Dalai Lama and Lamas. They want thier practitioners to be vegetarians because they are killing lives of animals which CREATES KARMA. The practitioners are not even allowed to pay meat items or menus woth meat even for thier love ones. And they, the Lamas (teachers) eat meat. He just use alibis and philosophic arguments to make himself
                    good in front of the public's eye but i don't think his actions justifies his "enlightend" philosophy. Being a Vegetarian, He could
                    get enough neutrients with meat equivalent. I would say it is just his alibi and for his own comfort. Most of his actions defy his own teachings. I do not believe this man.

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                    • I find myself leaning a little towards veganism as well these days. For me its simply a taste preference and a caution for feedlot meat which is all of my meat (besides some wild fish). I still enjoy fresh meat, but not in as large a portion. Dairy makes me uncomfotable down there, and I still love eggs. I have nothing wrong with animal products, I think its a phase... Or, maybe not. Who knows. I don't thnk veganism is bad. It has incredible merits when done right, its just not for everybody. Neither is the paleo diet. Everyone's body has different preferences.

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                      • Originally posted by Scarlet View Post
                        As a witness to Tibetan Buddhism practitioners, I find this A HUGE HYPOCRICY from Dalai Lama and Lamas. They want thier practitioners to be vegetarians because they are killing lives of animals which CREATES KARMA. The practitioners are not even allowed to pay meat items or menus woth meat even for thier love ones. And they, the Lamas (teachers) eat meat. He just use alibis and philosophic arguments to make himself
                        good in front of the public's eye but i don't think his actions justifies his "enlightend" philosophy. Being a Vegetarian, He could
                        get enough neutrients with meat equivalent. I would say it is just his alibi and for his own comfort. Most of his actions defy his own teachings. I do not believe this man.
                        It's a bad idea to expect reason from someone who believes they're the reincarnation of a holy person. Or anything, for that matter.

                        M.

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                        • absolutely true! that's why as a witness, I pity those poor souls who is so fanatic and lost their fortune, time, dignity, human rights, energy and skills to this sect.

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                          • Vegetarians always seem to be complaining about their migraines, depression, anxiety and other mental/brain issues.

                            Another Facebook post from a vegan today, "oh I guess migraines are just a part of my life now". I really wanna say "hey man, your brain is dying, eating some freakin' meat!".

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                            • Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                              Another Facebook post from a vegan today, "oh I guess migraines are just a part of my life now". I really wanna say "hey man, your brain is dying, eating some freakin' meat!".
                              Yup.

                              As an aside on this and a response to the idea that there are no preachy, judgemental vegetarians out there, the most supportive person in my family with my primal change was my big sis, a long term vegetarian (and sometime vegan). She could see the results with what I was doing, said clearly this is the right path for what my body wants and told me to stick with it 100%.

                              She has no problem cooking meat for my brother in law or her daughter (and is absolutely religious about giving my niece eggs and letting her pick her foods through instinct), made sure she was getting adequate protein when trying for pregnancy and, of course, when actually pregnant. Mostly through fish and seafood rather than poultry or red meat simply because that's what she enjoys, so you could say that she slides through the scale of pescatarian, vegetarian and vegan as the requirements of her family and body change. She's very strict with B12 supplements and monitors her micronutrient balance intelligently as well.

                              Her choice to be a vegetarian is purely ethical and something she's more or less maintained as health and circumstances permit since she was 13 years old. The crucial thing with her vegetarianism is that she hasn't been dogmatic. She's in agreement about basic things like how humans have (quite obviously) developed as omnivores from an evolutionary standpoint. She's never preached at me about it, even when she first started and I was five, six years old. She's been honest when people asked her why but never pushed it on anyone. It still sends my mother into conniptions, but meh, all I can do is roll my eyes and tell her it's not like she's a drug addict or anything, just give her some goddamn celery

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                              • Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                                Vegetarians always seem to be complaining about their migraines, depression, anxiety and other mental/brain issues.

                                Another Facebook post from a vegan today, "oh I guess migraines are just a part of my life now". I really wanna say "hey man, your brain is dying, eating some freakin' meat!".
                                Hard to say. My husband had complex migraines during a particularly stressful part of his life -- he was basically paleo/omnivorous. My BIL has terrible migraines fairly regularly; he's omnivorous for certain. He's a basically SAD, less fast food than normal (likes to cook; likes cooking light magazine, etc).

                                I know a lot of people who get migraines who are omnivorous, so i wouldn't say that vegetarianism is causal.

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