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How My Primal Instincts Led Me to... Veganism

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  • Originally posted by patski View Post
    PrimalHunter: You don't go around talking about how moral you are for NOT killing people, do you?
    No, I don't feel the need to say anything because it's so obvious. But if people were committing murders left and right and saw nothing wrong with that, then yeah, I'd tell them it wasn't moral (or I would, if I knew they wouldn't kill me).

    Originally posted by patski View Post
    I don't think anyone in their right mind should walk around spewing verbal diarrhea about how MORAL they are, or how COMPASSIONATE they are. Those people who do are usually complete self-righteous, self-important assholes.
    People had to speak out against slavery and such, or it wouldn't have changed.

    But I've never heard a vegan talking about how great they are personally, just that their diet is healthier and morally superior. And that's only online. The few vegans I know in real life never even talk about why they're vegan or try to convince anyone to change. I guess someone could come off as a self-righteous, self-important asshole if their delivery was wrong, but I haven't seen that.

    Originally posted by patski View Post
    Moral according to whom? Compassionate according to whom? Who sets the standards?
    I agree that morality is subjective, but there are a few things that decent people tend to agree on. I'd like to think we can all agree that it's better not to torture animals, all other things being equal. Of course, primal people know that other things are not equal, that we need animal products, that you don't have to torture animals to eat them, etc. But not everyone knows that.
    "Don't go in there, General, it's a trap! That's a grain chamber. It makes people like you into people like me."

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    • Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
      People had to speak out against slavery and such, or it wouldn't have changed.

      But I've never heard a vegan talking about how great they are personally, just that their diet is healthier and morally superior. And that's only online. The few vegans I know in real life never even talk about why they're vegan or try to convince anyone to change. I guess someone could come off as a self-righteous, self-important asshole if their delivery was wrong, but I haven't seen that.



      I agree that morality is subjective, but there are a few things that decent people tend to agree on. I'd like to think we can all agree that it's better not to torture animals, all other things being equal. Of course, primal people know that other things are not equal, that we need animal products, that you don't have to torture animals to eat them, etc. But not everyone knows that.
      Speaking out against slavery and acting puffed up because one is vegan are not even worth comparing. They aren't even close. I don't think there are many alive who would now claim slavery was a fantastic idea. Eating animals is a whole other game, and it is one of intense emotion. Vegans/vegetarians have a very, very different view of the position of animals and their relationship to them. But a 'human' issue, like slavery induces an entirely different set of morals. Unless one is a complete misanthrope, most people would agree slavery is wrong, killing is wrong, war is wrong, etc. Human vs. human conflict. But this is humans and our relationship to our food. This is what vegans/vegetarians do not see. Animals are their equals, their friends, sentient beings who also feel emotion and should never be tortured for any reason, least of all killed for our sustenance.

      Vegans/vegetarians also love to pull from history and use Einstein or Da Vinci as examples of great people who didn't consume animals. This is totally bunk and absurd. Hitler was a vegetarian IIRC.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/w...rian-diet.html

      (Amazing how Hitler referred to broth as 'corpse tea', but look at the atrocities he ordered. Un-fucking-believable!)

      I have seen/heard stuck up vegetarians/vegans who pride themselves as morally superior, in person as well, but mostly online. The internet is a safe space to act like a dick and not have to deal with any real consequence or confrontation.

      It is absolutely better not to torture animals.

      If people don't know there are better ways to consume animals (ie. animals that are humanely raised/slaughtered) then they are in a very, very sad state of being.

      My blathering amounts to this: what you choose to eat or not eat does NOT make you a better human being. Period.
      Last edited by patski; 03-28-2013, 07:52 AM.
      A Post-Primal PrimalPat

      Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

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      • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
        I think there is a certain immorality in denying the place on the food chain into which we were born.
        It's sort of a snide attitude. The world made me this way, but I know better. I don't know how immoral I find it, but I find it offensive and dishonest.
        The Champagne of Beards

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        • Plants are life also, trying the best they can to protect themselves against the herbivorous vegans that want to eat them! Nobody, except me, talks about that the plants qua life should have rights too…
          "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

          - Schopenhauer

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          • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
            Plants are life also, trying the best they can to protect themselves against the herbivorous vegans that want to eat them! Nobody, except me, talks about that the plants qua life should have rights too…
            Quarry

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            • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
              It's sort of a snide attitude. The world made me this way, but I know better. I don't know how immoral I find it, but I find it offensive and dishonest.
              BAM! You said it, Rich.

              (BTW, I've always loved your handle)
              A Post-Primal PrimalPat

              Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                Plants are life also, trying the best they can to protect themselves against the herbivorous vegans that want to eat them! Nobody, except me, talks about that the plants qua life should have rights too…
                It sounds funny, but it's why wheat and legumes have phytic acid. They're trying to protect themselves from....well, US!
                A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

                Comment


                • I don't have time to read through all of the posts on this thread, but did the OP go back to eating grains?

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                  • Originally posted by StoneAgeQueen View Post
                    I don't have time to read through all of the posts on this thread, but did the OP go back to eating grains?
                    OP drops in on various threads now encouraging people to eat grains and give up meat.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                      OP drops in on various threads now encouraging people to eat grains and give up meat.
                      Urgh.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                        OP drops in on various threads now encouraging people to eat grains and give up meat.
                        Where? I haven't seen it, just that the OP recommends humanely raised organic meat products.
                        Make America Great Again

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                        • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                          It's sort of a snide attitude. The world made me this way, but I know better. I don't know how immoral I find it, but I find it offensive and dishonest.
                          But that's what we do too. "The government and all leading health authorities say to eat whole grains and avoid saturated fat, but I know better." Or are you saying that if you keep these thoughts to yourself, then it's OK to think them?
                          "Don't go in there, General, it's a trap! That's a grain chamber. It makes people like you into people like me."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
                            But that's what we do too. "The government and all leading health authorities say to eat whole grains and avoid saturated fat, but I know better." Or are you saying that if you keep these thoughts to yourself, then it's OK to think them?
                            How is disagreeing with a conventional wisdom/so-called authority analagous to denying our nature? I don't see the connection at all.
                            The Champagne of Beards

                            Comment


                            • Wow, this was an interesting thread until about page 13 when some morons started arguing about primal rape as an example, and then more arguing over validity/legitimacy of blah blah blah. So much ego, so very boring. Please someone tell me I don't have to wade through 20 pages of that nonsense?

                              It was a stupid analogy fwiw

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                              • I disagree entirely. Here are some points I thought of in rebuttal. Be aware that it's meant to come off as calm and respectful, not angrily:

                                Firstly, by eating animals, I am not saying I am superior to them. In fact I am a nihilist, and I don't recognize any objective moral superiority from one group of molecules (e.g. humans) to another (e.g. another animal). Is the lion proclaiming his superiority to the gazelle when he eats it? Is the gorilla doing so to the insects he eats? Are we doing so, to the various organisms we eat, both plant and animal? Not in any way.

                                And this shunning of a superiority complex is completely contradictory to your own construct of moral superiority, that is that eating plant matter is somehow "better" (or less cruel, to use your word) than eating animals.

                                Secondly, I agree that grass-fed is better than not, and that dairy should be avoided for some. But your fear of the evils of the meat industry are not balanced. The fear should be in massive corporations, whether they're selling meat or produce. When they seek greater and greater profits, is when health problems with their product can occur.

                                Thirdly, pollution is an issue. But it's an issue for both meat and produce. I wonder if the lands used to make even "organic" foods are tainted with previous use of pesticides (some even leaded), of leaded gasoline, and of all the other pollutants I can't even fathom naming. It's an issue that affects the entire food supply.

                                There's probably some other things I could comment on, but this is the gist.
                                Last edited by Bosnic; 03-30-2013, 01:30 PM.

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