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How My Primal Instincts Led Me to... Veganism

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  • Originally posted by Terry H View Post
    It's great that each and every one of us are actually different species!
    Go back and have a look at your biology text, there is only one species in the Genus Homo still alive today and that is Sapiens, unless you have some secrets you're not telling, have you stumbled across another bipedal primate that may belong to the Homo Genus?.
    "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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    • Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
      My moral hesitance to eat them is like this, though... even the happiest chickens I've encountered (free-roaming, eat mostly organic feed..table scraps, etc...on a local farm) live a life that I'm not sure *I* would want to live (kept inside in winter, can't go outside at own choosing...yes, I overanalyze almost everything in life, but that's what makes me me), so I don't know if I can exploit them in good conscience. If I do, then God might take away my right to go outside at my choosing... the karmic way, and all... But if I crave eggs, then yeah, I'll have to go ahead and exploit them. (I haven't craved eggs yet, though I frequently crave rice, so...)
      possum, raccoons, foxes, hawks, dogs, cats, coyotes, snakes

      these are their predators just in my neck of the woods. if you don't want the little fluffy cannibals to die horribly you have a roost inside a pen of some sort, that you open up and let them forage around during the day after the hawks have given up waiting for the magic forcefield to dissipate and there are no roaming dogs or cats in the vicinity and you can keep a reasonable eye on the flock

      or you could build a pen on wheels and push it around to different parts of the yard so they can scratch in peace

      winter, well, it's been a while since i had chickens (4H) but i imagine some would find a way to kill themselves in the cold on accident

      i've only seen one flock left to roam free as nature intended. there's only one survivor, a rooster. and that's because he spends his days and nights streaking from under one bush to the other. you can't catch him to put him somewhere safe so the poor thing just keeps running and hiding

      they need pens and roosts, they're too easily picked off
      beautiful
      yeah you are

      Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
      lol

      Comment


      • Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
        Yeah, more or less.

        My moral hesitance to eat them is like this, though... even the happiest chickens I've encountered (free-roaming, eat mostly organic feed..table scraps, etc...on a local farm) live a life that I'm not sure *I* would want to live (kept inside in winter, can't go outside at own choosing...
        ehhhhh, not so much.... I raise chickens.... I have 80 layers currently, and they have access to the outdoors all day every day, rain or shine..... they get locked up at night, but their instincts tell them to seek shelter at night.
        I should hope you wouldn't want to live like a chicken, since you are human and don't have the feathers that protect you and keep you warm....
        As far as the over-analyzing.... that can be changed. You don't have the same thought processes, moral outlook or opinions you did when you were 5 do you? You have changed and will continue to change. The only constant thing in life is change. Nothing stays the same way forver....

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        • Originally posted by Omni View Post
          Go back and have a look at your biology text, there is only one species in the Genus Homo still alive today and that is Sapiens, unless you have some secrets you're not telling, [I]have you stumbled across another bipedal primate that may belong to the Homo Genus?[/I].
          Exactly my point altho I was trying to be facetious and humorous about it. WE are not all that different.
          Last edited by Terry H; 03-21-2013, 04:36 AM.

          Comment


          • I am going to tell you something you don't want to hear. Veganism is a dangerous game people play. How do I know? I was a vegan for many years and it wrecked my health. It doesn't happen instantly, but over a long period of time. The longer you are a vegan, the more vitamin deficient you will become unless you take a lot of supplements. I don't even agree with Mark S. about taking supplements. They are not primal, paleo OR natural. You can get all the nutrients and vitamins you need on a truly primal/paleo diet, but you can't on a vegan diet. For one thing, you will become vitamin B-12 deficient. I was and I developed periphial neuropathy (tremors in my feet and hands and twitching in my face). You will also develop muscle wasting. Everyone loses some muscle over the years, but with vegans it is worse. Muscle wasting (sarcopenia) not only makes your body look bad, it makes you tired all the time and eventually people with muscle wasting find it difficult to do ordinary every day tasks. No amount of strength training or other exercise can rebuild your muscles on their own, although added protein combined with strength training does help. You might be thinking you can get protein from beans and soy and that is true, but the aminos in those foods are not complete and you still won't get vitamin B-12. It is an open secret among long-time vegans that some long time profile vegans have developed mental problems from a non-supplementary vegan diet. As far as animal cruelty and the environment goes, rice farming in other countries not only uses cattle, but the production of rice contributes just as much to habitat destruction and global warming as the cattle industry and most of the world's rice comes from countries were there are little to no regulations. I used to be a huge animal rights activist. However now I realize that raising livestock actually preserves those species. If we stopped raising cows, chickens and pigs, their species would die out. You might think that would be best, but considering that wild animals are even more endangered, it wouldn't be long before the world would have no animals, domesticated or wild. You can find places that care for their animals in a humane way and have a very small impact on the environment. They are increasing in number and the links are provided on this website. So take it from a long-time former vegan, veganism not only is not the way to go if you want to live a healthy life.
            Last edited by grokgramma; 03-21-2013, 08:20 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Terry H View Post
              Exactly my point altho I was trying to be facetious and humorous about it. WE are not all that different.
              Sorry, we're in a Vegan domain and I thought you'd been infected with pseudo-science.
              "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

              Comment


              • No problem. Enjoy your posts, BTW.

                Comment


                • @nd chance, just to give you a little support, I have a friend who is 48. She has been a vegetarian since age 12 and a vegan for the last 12. She also smoked for 20 of those years.
                  She is very healthy, looks great. Much better than most people her age. No she is not skinny fat and no she is not a stick. She is also very active. Little cardio, lots of Yoga and lots of outdoor activity
                  She did not do it for health reasons (as you can tell from the smoking ), she did it for ethical reasons.
                  I wish you good luck on your journey. If you stick to primal principals of avoiding processed food/oils/gluten and supplement those items that a vegan diet may lack you should be OK. Like everyone should, keep an eye on your health.
                  I respect this lady for what she is doing and I try not to eat meat in front of her :-).

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by grokgramma View Post
                    I am going to tell you something you don't want to hear. Veganism is a dangerous game people play. How do I know? I was a vegan for many years and it wrecked my health. It doesn't happen instantly, but over a long period of time. The longer you are a vegan, the more vitamin deficient you will become unless you take a lot of supplements. I don't even agree with Mark S. about taking supplements. They are not primal, paleo OR natural. You can get all the nutrients and vitamins you need on a truly primal/paleo diet, but you can't on a vegan diet. For one thing, you will become vitamin B-12 deficient. I was and I developed periphial neuropathy (tremors in my feet and hands and twitching in my face). You will also develop muscle wasting. Everyone loses some muscle over the years, but with vegans it is worse. Muscle wasting (sarcopenia) not only makes your body look bad, it makes you tired all the time and eventually people with muscle wasting find it difficult to do ordinary every day tasks. No amount of strength training or other exercise can rebuild your muscles on their own, although added protein combined with strength training does help. You might be thinking you can get protein from beans and soy and that is true, but the aminos in those foods are not complete and you still won't get vitamin B-12. It is an open secret among long-time vegans that some long time profile vegans have developed mental problems from a non-supplementary vegan diet. As far as animal cruelty and the environment goes, rice farming in other countries not only uses cattle, but the production of rice contributes just as much to habitat destruction and global warming as the cattle industry and most of the world's rice comes from countries were there are little to no regulations. I used to be a huge animal rights activist. However now I realize that raising livestock actually preserves those species. If we stopped raising cows, chickens and pigs, their species would die out. You might think that would be best, but considering that wild animals are even more endangered, it wouldn't be long before the world would have no animals, domesticated or wild. You can find places that care for their animals in a humane way and have a very small impact on the environment. They are increasing in number and the links are provided on this website. So take it from a long-time former vegan, veganism not only is not the way to go if you want to live a healthy life.
                    Thanks for posting this.

                    Comment


                    • I find it absurd and extremely dangerous when people think what they do not eat makes them morally superior.
                      A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                      Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                        Patski Glad to see you're back! You've been missed.

                        Thanks for the link, great stories.
                        Awwww, that's sweet Urban Forager! Yes, I disappeared for a bit there. I'm still around
                        A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                        Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by patski View Post
                          I find it absurd and extremely dangerous when people think what they do not eat makes them morally superior.
                          Do you consider yourself superior to cannibals? Just wondering.

                          Comment


                          • Morally superior? Or just plain ol' boring superior?

                            Actually no, I do not. Probably not the answer you were looking for.
                            A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                            Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by patski View Post
                              Morally superior? Or just plain ol' boring superior?

                              Actually no, I do not. Probably not the answer you were looking for.
                              I wasn't really looking for a specific answer. That's the one I was expecting, though.

                              Comment


                              • Glad I could be of service.

                                Now I flip the question back on you: do you think you're morally superior to those who eat meat?
                                A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                                Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

                                Comment

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