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How My Primal Instincts Led Me to... Veganism

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  • Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
    Why drink any milk?
    butter and honey covered yogurt are blessings
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
    lol

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    • Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
      Why drink any milk?
      Why eat any vegetables? That shit'll kill you. Look here Green tea extract only affects markers of oxidativ... [Br J Nutr. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI

      "The overall effect of the 10-week period without dietary fruits and vegetables was a decrease in oxidative damage to DNA, blood proteins, and plasma lipids, concomitantly with marked changes in antioxidative defence."

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      • Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
        Dairy is scary... Cow's milk is so different in composition than human milk... It's to make baby calves grow HUGE, FAST. Human milk is 40:60 casein to whey ratio, cow's milk 80:20... read up on casein, it might scare you...
        Oh boy, it's THIS argument again.

        Evolution of lactose tolerance: Why do humans keep drinking milk? - Slate Magazine

        "Since milk's primary biological function is to support the growth of a young animal, some of its features make it inappropriate as a sole food for an adult.
        To support cell division and growth, the methionine and tryptophan content of milk is higher than would be optimal for an adult animal, and the phosphate might be slightly more than needed, in relation to the calcium. Since the fetus stores a large amount of iron during gestation, the iron content of milk is low, and when a young animal has used the stored iron, its continuing growth requires more iron than milk provides. However, for an adult, the low iron content of milk and cheese makes these foods useful for preventing the iron overload that often contributes to the degenerative diseases."

        Milk is a complete source of nutrients and protein. And yeah, I bet I could get a bunch of fear mongering propaganda if I googled "dairy is bad", but as I'm not that gullible, I'll just keep drinking milk.

        Also, if I could find a woman that was permanently lactating, and would be willing to let me drink off her breasts you bet I would do it. Goats milk tastes good too, though.
        Make America Great Again

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        • It's like reading every PETA pamphlet ever for the past 20 years. Same stale, easily-refuted arguments, over and over.

          OP, if you're not eating animal products, and you're not eating wheat or soy, what are you eating? I'm honestly curious where you're getting your protein. Beans, I guess (not very primal, but whatever, 80/20 and all that)? Am I missing something?

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          • lately I've felt better eating fruit, avocado, nuts and chocolate than meat and vegetables. This might be an I-need-a-particular-nutrient from these things moment, or possibly something more, time will tell...
            If you have a few minutes- please take a look at my story, in my journal
            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread87400.html
            I do warn you, I am a copious writer.

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            • Yes, very telling....

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                As a note, throughout this thread, I've used the word superior when referencing humans' place to animals. In general, I (and I can only speak for myself) am using that in a brain capacity way. For eg., there are probably no lions and gazelles right now disputing the meaning of superior. If that lion catches and eats the gazelle, game, set, match - the lion wins. If the gazelle gets away that day, it lives to forage for plants, procreate, and one day become food for a predator (though I suppose some must die of old age, at which point they'd be eaten by scavengers).
                By defining the term -- or putting it to a narrow point/process -- then it's perfectly fine to use this as a process.

                When people use it in the "pyramid scheme" process -- separate from animals and from nature itself (or our ecosystem) -- then it's a bit problematic.

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                • Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                  It's like reading every PETA pamphlet ever for the past 20 years. Same stale, easily-refuted arguments, over and over.

                  OP, if you're not eating animal products, and you're not eating wheat or soy, what are you eating? I'm honestly curious where you're getting your protein. Beans, I guess (not very primal, but whatever, 80/20 and all that)? Am I missing something?
                  I think she answered this in that she's eating nuts/seeds as well as gluten free grains (which do have protein, even if it's not that bio-available). Seeing as the RDA is actually relatively low, it's easy enough to meet the basic requirements for a sedentary person.

                  The RDA asserts 46 grams for the average vegan female (I assume without heavy lifting). Between nuts and oatmeal, things like broccoli as well. . .

                  1 cup oatmeal is 6 g
                  1 cup cooked broccoli is 4 g
                  2 tbsp almonds is 4 g.

                  So, that's 14 g right there -- and it's not much food. So, if you just tripled each serving (and there are, of course, other foods with protein in it -- other veg, seeds, etc), then you'd easily reach your 46 g of protein for the average person based on RDA.

                  Now, we know that here in primal land, RDA "ain't enough" for growing muscle etc etc etc. Most vegans use pea protein powder as their mainstay (the body building ones) in addition to soy, and glutenous grains which also have pretty high protein (ie, bulgar wheat).

                  Still, if she were paleo-vegan, I would wager that 3 cups of oatmeal -- which honestly isn't that much in a bowl at breakfast with 3 TB almond slivers with, say, some nice apple sauce (sugar free) and pie spice would be quite filing and tastey and get her most o the way there. Later, a big spinach salad with some orange bits and maybe fennel and some more almonds (3 tb) and she's still headed in the right direction, and hten for dinner, gets 3 cups cooked broccoli -- which is about what I eat at dinner when I have broccoli as we have to make at least 8 cups for our family -- then she's basically passed the line.

                  And, assuming she could put in other seeds and nuts which will diversify nutrient profiles and the like -- and then did wacky things with them like make super-yummy pates and/or raw crackers (one of my favorite vegan snacks and still a treat on occasion). . . then, yeah, she's definitely making the grade.

                  It could also be quite high fat between all of the nuts/seeds, avocados, olive oils and the like that could be added, so the diet would lean toward fat really -- for satiation -- and then the rest just fills in the nutrient profiles after that.

                  I'm not saying it's super-fabu-awesomesauce, but I think it could be done.

                  Largely because that's how I ate until my cholesterol went way too low.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                    Also, if I could find a woman that was permanently lactating, and would be willing to let me drink off her breasts you bet I would do it. Goats milk tastes good too, though.
                    She could just pump for you. But the sad reality is that most of the women who are pumping -- myself included -- are either A. feeding it to our children or B. feeding it to other people's children when those women want breastmilk but cannot produce it or produce enough of it for themselves. Milk-sharing is a big thing (very important), and I did a fair bit of it.

                    Trust me, that milk is hard won. We don't just give it away to random men who might think it's nice, and your over-sexualization of our feeding process for our children is kind of yucky.

                    Of course, some women in Europe did donate milk to a chef who made it into something special for some awareness-raising what-not, and it got a lot of press -- but hte idea was to bring human milk into the norm, not so that people can perv about it.

                    End of the day, I nursed my friend's daughter and also gave 3 months worth of pumping to her -- and I'm glad and proud to have done it -- and IMO, that's where that milk belongs.

                    As for produced milk -- cows, goats, horse, etc -- up to the individual to decide whether or not it's healthy (for them) and moral to consume, etc.

                    We buy raw milk through a cow share, and they are considering starting a goat share as well. We might get a share to both, then alternate which we order.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                      I think she answered this in that she's eating nuts/seeds as well as gluten free grains (which do have protein, even if it's not that bio-available). Seeing as the RDA is actually relatively low, it's easy enough to meet the basic requirements for a sedentary person.

                      The RDA asserts 46 grams for the average vegan female (I assume without heavy lifting). Between nuts and oatmeal, things like broccoli as well. . .

                      1 cup oatmeal is 6 g
                      1 cup cooked broccoli is 4 g
                      2 tbsp almonds is 4 g.

                      So, that's 14 g right there -- and it's not much food. So, if you just tripled each serving (and there are, of course, other foods with protein in it -- other veg, seeds, etc), then you'd easily reach your 46 g of protein for the average person based on RDA.

                      Now, we know that here in primal land, RDA "ain't enough" for growing muscle etc etc etc. Most vegans use pea protein powder as their mainstay (the body building ones) in addition to soy, and glutenous grains which also have pretty high protein (ie, bulgar wheat).

                      Still, if she were paleo-vegan, I would wager that 3 cups of oatmeal -- which honestly isn't that much in a bowl at breakfast with 3 TB almond slivers with, say, some nice apple sauce (sugar free) and pie spice would be quite filing and tastey and get her most o the way there. Later, a big spinach salad with some orange bits and maybe fennel and some more almonds (3 tb) and she's still headed in the right direction, and hten for dinner, gets 3 cups cooked broccoli -- which is about what I eat at dinner when I have broccoli as we have to make at least 8 cups for our family -- then she's basically passed the line.

                      And, assuming she could put in other seeds and nuts which will diversify nutrient profiles and the like -- and then did wacky things with them like make super-yummy pates and/or raw crackers (one of my favorite vegan snacks and still a treat on occasion). . . then, yeah, she's definitely making the grade.

                      It could also be quite high fat between all of the nuts/seeds, avocados, olive oils and the like that could be added, so the diet would lean toward fat really -- for satiation -- and then the rest just fills in the nutrient profiles after that.

                      I'm not saying it's super-fabu-awesomesauce, but I think it could be done.

                      Largely because that's how I ate until my cholesterol went way too low.
                      Animal protein is superior to almost all vegetarian protein. Animal protein = complete essential amino acid profile.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by quikky View Post
                        Animal protein is superior to almost all vegetarian protein. Animal protein = complete essential amino acid profile.
                        So what?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by quikky View Post
                          Animal protein is superior to almost all vegetarian protein. Animal protein = complete essential amino acid profile.
                          Not arguing about it.

                          The question was "where does she get her protein" and there are the paleo sources. Nothing about whether or not it's complete, superior, better than, etc.

                          Honestly, don't really care. Just saying it's "possible" not saying it's "optimal" (and I don't care about "optimizing" so. . .).

                          Comment


                          • 3 cups of oatmeal in one sitting, plus a bunch of add ins? ... Oh my god... I think I'd die.
                            That seems like the heaviest most miserable gut bomb ever.

                            Do people really eat that much without being sick?
                            Is that realistic?
                            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                            Comment


                            • Yes, I used to eat it all the time. And I'm not even a fan of oatmeal.

                              One of my regular (WAPF-vegetarian) breakfasts was 3 cups (dry measure) oatmeal (which comes up to about 1.5 cups wet measure -- or a very small volume indeed) plus home-made apple sauce (about half an apple's worth) plus then slivered almons -- easily 3 tbsp. It's honestly NOT that much food. It's certainly much less than my current breakfast of 1.5 cups cooked (steamed) veg plus olive oil plus three eggs in butter -- which is a lot more physical volume (in addition to having a lot more nutrition).

                              Comment


                              • Am I on crazy pills? Since when are oats paleo? (Genuinely asking. Didn't know they were on the "good" list.)

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