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  • #31
    It seems like there's a big variety of definitions of "junk food" going on in this thread, and it's leading to some miscommunication. I don't know what the author of the article meant by junk food, but to me, junk food is stuff like tortilla chips and queso dip at Mexican restaurants, a bun on my burger, french fries, ice cream, baked goods, pancakes, pizza, chocolate sauce, stuff like that. But I still eat these things within a "primal" framework, even though they're not primal items; everything is as unprocessed and "whole" as possible, there's no HFCS, MSG, or trans fat oils, etc. It would never occur to me to eat something like McDonald's, Taco Bell, stuff made with MSG or Crisco or whatever. But then, I was raised without ever setting foot in a fast food joint. My parents were really strict about it. I never had McDonald's till I was in college. Fast food or the packaged stuff from the inside aisles of the supermarket just does not register as food to me.

    So if we're talking "junk food" as in McDonald's, Hot Pockets, Cool Whip, etc., then yeah, I don't think these things are ever acceptable to eat and I would advocate avoiding them 100% of the time. If we're talking occasional additions of wheat, corn, sucrose, and items fried in acceptable oils, then I think it's healthy to stress your system with these cheats.

    It should go without saying that if you have specific food intolerances or diseases like Celiac, none of this applies.

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    • #32
      Just have to say it...

      Mark had a recent piece about a little concept known as "horemetics" which is when small doses of stress (dietary or environmental) might actually have a positive effect on our bodies and overall health. However, the key words here are "small doses."

      So yes, eating crappy for a day or two might actually be good for your body by conditioning it to respond to stress better, kick start certain hormones, ect. But the constant stress of a bad diet is going to take its toll over time and wear down your body. We're talking small targeted doses of occasional stress as opposed to the constant, unending stress put upon your body from eating a shitty diet that causes digestive stress and systemic inflammation, ect.

      It's all about being reasonable.
      "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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      • #33
        Originally posted by StackingPlates View Post
        Ironic comment posted on a "Paleo diet" message board...
        Stacking! Where you been....is that all we get from you after such a long absence?

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        • #34
          Just like ROS are also signal molecules that actually help with metabolic communication. Simply crazy. Now what is interesting is when you artificially suppress ROS and other things we consider "damaging" with synthetic supplements and the like. Seems reasonable at fist if your simply looking at oxidative stress in a vacuum, but when some of these newer discoveries come to light there's a big "whoops" coming.

          It all comes down to we all "think" we are so smart. The body and mind are still light years ahead of our conscious comprehension. All we can do is remove the crap, try to support good function and get the hell out the way
          Last edited by Neckhammer; 01-22-2013, 05:43 PM.

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          • #35
            So if you drive a car, is it good to occasionally put sugar in the gas tank?
            Crohn's, doing SCD

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
              So if you drive a car, is it good to occasionally put sugar in the gas tank?
              Yes!....just not in Myyyyy gas tank........ (wanders away nonchalantly with bag of sugar....)
              Every time I hear the dirty word 'exercise', I wash my mouth out with chocolate.

              http://primaldog.blogspot.co.uk/

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              • #37
                I am so tired of comparing one's body to a car. Fueling myself, all that 'premium fuel', 'don't drive on an empty tank' metaphors.

                If you had a car that was as individual, unpredictable, temperamental, changeable and defying all logic, any logic, be it CW, Primal or vegan or any other, you would have sent it to a junk yard the second day you owned it. Just after you came to the parking lot, and the keyhole is a different size than your keys, one of the tires was over-inflated by some unknown reason that may or may not have had anything to do with a bit of gravel on the road you've encountered while test driving it 3 weeks before, and the gas tank showed empty though you pumped it full the night before with whatever was advertised as the bestest gas ever at the one of gazillion brands of the gas-stations.

                Sorry about this rant.
                Last edited by Leida; 01-23-2013, 06:39 AM.
                My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                • #38
                  I definitely get where the author is coming from. I did have issues with high cholesterol and being a bit overweight before primal. However after primal while those issues were gone new ones developed. I am now a fructose malabsorber to a certain extent. My cycles stop when I eat low carb for more than a few weeks and I can't gain weight on primal, so I end up resorting back to grains and sugar so I can ovulate. And yes I have tried starches to gain and get my cycle back. Now maybe I preconditioned my body to not ovulate without grains all those years before primal....but I am 29, so it wasn't that long compared to most. Just my thoughts.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Goldensparrow View Post
                    I definitely get where the author is coming from. I did have issues with high cholesterol and being a bit overweight before primal. However after primal while those issues were gone new ones developed. I am now a fructose malabsorber to a certain extent. My cycles stop when I eat low carb for more than a few weeks and I can't gain weight on primal, so I end up resorting back to grains and sugar so I can ovulate. And yes I have tried starches to gain and get my cycle back. Now maybe I preconditioned my body to not ovulate without grains all those years before primal....but I am 29, so it wasn't that long compared to most. Just my thoughts.
                    Wow, you need grains to ovulate? Sorry... that's unfortunate.

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                    • #40
                      Goldensparrow, just stick to rice for your grain and I think you'd be just fine. Some people are not "easy keepers".

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                        Just have to say it...

                        Mark had a recent piece about a little concept known as "horemetics" which is when small doses of stress (dietary or environmental) might actually have a positive effect on our bodies and overall health. However, the key words here are "small doses."

                        So yes, eating crappy for a day or two might actually be good for your body by conditioning it to respond to stress better, kick start certain hormones, ect. But the constant stress of a bad diet is going to take its toll over time and wear down your body. We're talking small targeted doses of occasional stress as opposed to the constant, unending stress put upon your body from eating a shitty diet that causes digestive stress and systemic inflammation, ect.

                        It's all about being reasonable.
                        Where I was going with the article was that you don't really understand what the acceptable or tolerable level of stress is unless you start tinkering with your diet and actually test it out, that we don't even really understand what is stressful and what isn't, what's too stressful, what's just enough stress, and what isn't enough. You may think you can only handle a day of eating crappy food or not eating at all, but as you adapt to the stress (or as stress in other areas in your life are reduced) your adaptive capacity may be increased past prior limits and you can tolerate more. Simply put, you don't know until you try again.

                        Additionally, lots of the foods that the Paleo group think are "restorative" are actually secretly hormetic. Much like the phytochemicals present in vegetables and fruits. The high amounts of iron present in the paleo-friendly foods, like beef, deer or lamb, is another overlooked hormetic aspect of the paleo diet (iron is a major promoter of free-radical generation). Then add on the effects of a low-carb high fat diet, which typically increases the activity of pro-inflammatory markers (IL-6 and CRP, namely) and you've got a system that's subversively experiencing stress. Where the Paleo diet combats this stress is through the intake of foods that are micronutrient/cholesterol/protein/antioxidant dense.

                        I think as long as micronutrient/cholesterol/protein/antioxidant intake is adequate (and diverse), cellular metabolism is operating functionally, glucose uptake is occurring properly, and a person is undergoing periodic episodes of very low or no caloric intake -- you can tolerate virtually any kind of food so long as you are disease free. Like I said earlier, I study diabetes, and the more I research on the topic, the more I see the disease as simply a state of deficiency and not excess (not enough of X, as opposed to too much of Y, is the true determinant of health outcomes). This is why in my earlier article, I discussed the need to focus on inclusive dietary habits vs. exclusive dietary habits.
                        Last edited by dyen; 01-24-2013, 09:54 AM.

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