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Paleobird's Adventures in Carnivorousness

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
    Paleobird, power to you. And to me, since I've given up coffee and my aged look is dissolving, I think I was surely off-base blaming the meat at all.
    But does this mean you'll adjust your macros to lower (relatively) fat, higher (than before) protein?
    Either way, between seafood, eggs and liver with a few avocados, mushrooms and spices, etc., the bases are covered!
    What about berries? Even most straight carnivores love their berries.
    Yay on decaffeinating! The carnivorous premise is, if you stick to all animal products and eat some fatty cuts of meat, the macros sort themselves out. Yea a few berries in mid summer would be a nice garnish on a dish of whipped cream.

    Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
    At least I agree with you about vegetables
    There is hope for us yet, Derpy my sweet.

    Originally posted by otzi View Post
    Just saying the Inuit probably had the closest to a carnivorous diet than anybody on the planet ever.
    Lack of wood, in the Arctic...lol...'Eskimo' translates to 'eater of raw meat'
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]10463[/ATTACH]
    I believe they actually cooked with dung most of the time but that aside they did cook. So carnivore=/=all raw carnivore. Not that I have a problem with as I said in the OP steak tartare or sashimi.

    Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
    I think part of the love of vegetables is that it's one food we can truly eat as much as we want without guilt and even quite a large measure of virtue. I think, at least we women, love a guilt-free binge. Many of us train ourselves to live in a state of chronic deprivation.
    Still there are days when I really actually crave certain veggies and they do truly taste great, even just steamed and plain. That's not every day.
    Getting enough meat to eat is a challenge, especially surrounded by such a judgmental culture. It can be hard to savor your steak when raised eyebrows are slinging through the air like arrows at you.

    Paleobird, are you thinking of making a change to your own diet or are you just figuring out that the diet you've fallen into has a lot in common with these various carnivorous philosophies?
    I think a lot of dieters use veggies as a bulk filler because we are somehow attached to the feeling of fullness being necessary.

    My diet just seems to be heading that general direction of its own accord and I like it. It feels good. My digestive system is happy. I'm sleeping well. No seizures. And it's easy to maintain ketosis if I am not obligated to veggies.

    Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
    Okay, so I just misunderstood you. To be clear, you do not believe there are actually phytonutrients in meat?
    Of course not. The phytonutrients have been processed into things we can better absorb. I meant we were still getting the benefit from them, just using the cow as the "middleman". Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
    Last edited by Paleobird; 01-16-2013, 05:57 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by otzi View Post
      Just saying the Inuit probably had the closest to a carnivorous diet than anybody on the planet ever.
      [ATTACH=CONFIG]10463[/ATTACH]
      That sir is one HELLUVA assumption.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
        That sir is one HELLUVA assumption.
        Yes the Inuit were a people living on the very edges of what humanity could survive without the help of technology. Making any assumptions based on them is inherently flawed. As I said in the OP, the ZIOH site may base their wisdom on the writings of a European person about the Inuit. I am basing my conclusions on 2.5 million years of human evolution.

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        • #19
          Nah, I'm sure they are damn near as carnivorous as we know of recent known societies. What I was replying to was Otzi's "on the planet ever" part. Just seemed like one heck of a statement considering all the climate changes throughout evolution and the many societies come and gone and whatnot.

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          • #20
            I just want to know...will there be pictures?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
              Nah, I'm sure they are damn near as carnivorous as we know of recent known societies. What I was replying to was Otzi's "on the planet ever" part. Just seemed like one heck of a statement considering all the climate changes throughout evolution and the many societies come and gone and whatnot.
              Oh, I agree. I was referring to his assumptions that all carnivorous diets= fermenting seal flippers and undigested contents of caribou stomachs.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Sabine View Post
                I just want to know...will there be pictures?
                Sorry, there could have been food porn but I already had dinner. It was a surf and turf combo of garlic/ginger salmon and lamb chops. And I had labne kefir cheese for breakfast. I am feeling very fine.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sabine View Post
                  I just want to know...will there be pictures?
                  Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                  Sorry, there could have been food porn but I already had dinner. It was a surf and turf combo of garlic/ginger salmon and lamb chops. And I had labne kefir cheese for breakfast. I am feeling very fine.
                  I was hoping for pictures of the men seduced by your carnivorousness! By Paleobird standards I am practically vegetarian, but by SAD standards I am a carnivorous fiend. The reaction of the men at work to my lunches is quite gratifying, lol. Too bad for them I'm already happily married.
                  50yo, 5'3"
                  SW-195
                  CW-125, part calorie counting, part transition to primal
                  GW- Goals are no longer weight-related

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                  • #24
                    I think this one will be as interesting to observe as the ketogenic for neuro-health thread is/was. I really enjoy your experimentations and threads.

                    Oddly, I actually do love fruit and veg. I will eat it raw and unseasoned -- though several things become more palatable when cooked (ie, kale, pumpkin, etc). Still, I love them. I don't think it's 100% social conditioning. I think sometimes we are just different.

                    That being said, as ever, I'm always "more power to you!" People should make conscious, thoughtful tweaks and experiments and see what works for them!

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                    • #25
                      This is interesting. As for me, if I think about the oft cited phrase to listen to our bodies and cravings, and assess how that looks after one year eating "primal" I mostly eat meats, eggs, some organs, some tails, etc, and have to be very conscious about adding vegetables and fruits. This past summer I did have cravings for fruit such as the peaches and cherries on my inlaws trees when we were visiting... once in awhile I eat cheese, wine, rice or sweet potato, dark chocolate, each about once per week. When I am adding vegetables I am trying to add them, I am not adding them because I want to eat them, but because I think I should (or I am trying to make a sauce for the meat).
                      Female, age 51, 5' 9"
                      SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

                      Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
                      2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by LauraSB View Post
                        I was hoping for pictures of the men seduced by your carnivorousness! By Paleobird standards I am practically vegetarian, but by SAD standards I am a carnivorous fiend. The reaction of the men at work to my lunches is quite gratifying, lol. Too bad for them I'm already happily married.
                        Hah! I haven't had much time for seduction lately but all this meat is making me feel frisky. Must get back to that.

                        Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                        I think this one will be as interesting to observe as the ketogenic for neuro-health thread is/was. I really enjoy your experimentations and threads.

                        Oddly, I actually do love fruit and veg. I will eat it raw and unseasoned -- though several things become more palatable when cooked (ie, kale, pumpkin, etc). Still, I love them. I don't think it's 100% social conditioning. I think sometimes we are just different.

                        That being said, as ever, I'm always "more power to you!" People should make conscious, thoughtful tweaks and experiments and see what works for them!
                        If you had asked me a few months ago how I felt about vegetables I would have told you in all sincerity and honesty that I adored them. Perhaps the diet itself starts to change a person's tastes (it's possible that sustained ketosis could do this) or perhaps it just makes you aware of what you could be having. (i.e. seconds on the brisket instead of a BAS)

                        But if you associate in your mind that veg=health, you will of course want to be healthy and maybe talk yourself into luuuurving those veggies a bit more than you actually do if you give yourself permission to eat what you really want. I found the more I thought about it and was honest with myself, the veggies just did not hold that much appeal.

                        I think occasional fruit should be like paleo candy. Once in a while it is no big deal.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jojohaligo View Post
                          This is interesting. As for me, if I think about the oft cited phrase to listen to our bodies and cravings, and assess how that looks after one year eating "primal" I mostly eat meats, eggs, some organs, some tails, etc, and have to be very conscious about adding vegetables and fruits. This past summer I did have cravings for fruit such as the peaches and cherries on my inlaws trees when we were visiting... once in awhile I eat cheese, wine, rice or sweet potato, dark chocolate, each about once per week. When I am adding vegetables I am trying to add them, I am not adding them because I want to eat them, but because I think I should (or I am trying to make a sauce for the meat).
                          This. Exactly what I was getting at. Vegetables that enhance the flavor of your meat like a tomato or mushroom sauce or onions in the broth pot, these are the things I'm keeping. Anything I was eating out of a sense of "Well, I really *should* eat some veggies", is getting binned.

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                          • #28
                            But if you associate in your mind that veg=health, you will of course want to be healthy and maybe talk yourself into luuuurving those veggies a bit more than you actually do if you give yourself permission to eat what you really want.
                            This is the important part -- it's an if/then statement. I don't necessarily believe that "veg = health." I think that a lot of things = health, and i'm usually looking for ways of doing things that will improve health and longevity. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been quite as diverse in my meanderings (from veganism to now).


                            If you had asked me a few months ago how I felt about vegetables I would have told you in all sincerity and honesty that I adored them. Perhaps the diet itself starts to change a person's tastes (it's possible that sustained ketosis could do this) or perhaps it just makes you aware of what you could be having. (i.e. seconds on the brisket instead of a BAS)

                            I have found since going primal that I do not eat and not not want as much fruit as I once did. I used to eat 4-5
                            pieces/servings of fruit per day. I loved fruit! Well, I still love fruit, but I find that I eat a piece a day *at most* and I'm more likely to go a couple of days without it. Likewise, I have *zero* interest in toast/etc. Cookies/cakes/ice cream/naan on rare occasion are nice, but no longer have the intense draw that they once did.

                            So, certainly, the tastes do change based on how you adapt, how you feel, etc.

                            But, I still love my veg. I can go without them at breakfast (just having eggs, for example), but once I hit dinner time, I'm usually craving them. And, I know when I'm 'finished' with the meat, but still hungry. The meat no longer tastes good, and I want the veg, so I eat them.

                            Again, I think this can change over time, but I'm not sure that I want/need to go "full carnivore." I just am not entirely sold on the idea that this is just a thought-problem, you know? "I think it's healthy, therefore I force myself to do it!" It's just not my style.

                            I think occasional fruit should be like paleo candy. Once in a while it is no big deal.
                            we did berry picking on the holiday as a fun family activity. WHAT A BLAST! the farm that we went do has a lot of variety of fruit and veg in different seasons, so we are going to make different trips and get some good stuff right off the plant/tree or out of the ground! DS had so much fun, and we just loved the fruits of the labor! (no pun intended, but yeah).

                            i think that seasonal fruit is a pretty big deal, but we do frozen berries for DS and DH anyway. I rarely have those. I'm more likely to have whatever is seasonal.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                              This. Exactly what I was getting at. Vegetables that enhance the flavor of your meat like a tomato or mushroom sauce or onions in the broth pot, these are the things I'm keeping. Anything I was eating out of a sense of "Well, I really *should* eat some veggies", is getting binned.
                              Peter at Hyperlipid did a series of posts about the deleterious health effects of fruit and vegetable consumption.

                              This is representative:

                              Hyperlipid: Fruit and vegetables (1) re post

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                                This is the important part -- it's an if/then statement. I don't necessarily believe that "veg = health." I think that a lot of things = health, and i'm usually looking for ways of doing things that will improve health and longevity. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been quite as diverse in my meanderings (from veganism to now).

                                I have found since going primal that I do not eat and not not want as much fruit as I once did.
                                So, certainly, the tastes do change based on how you adapt, how you feel, etc.

                                But, I still love my veg.
                                But you are an incredibly fit and healthy person and, being a yoga teacher, you associate with all kinds of other fit and health conscious people (a lot of the yoga "types" I've known area also vegetarian if you'll forgive the stereotype). So there is probably an emphasis on veg, kids with celery sticks instead of crackers in their lunches, etc. This is the world I live in too. My friends are fit and go hiking, cycling, etc.

                                I honestly thought I love my veg too until I go my head around doing what I wanted and what my body was asking for instead of what I was supposed to want and do. It took a couple of months of thinking about it. One day at a party I looked at the broccoli stalk in my hand and said, "Why am I eating this?" I'm not saying this will or should happen to you just that it did to me.

                                Originally posted by samknox View Post
                                Peter at Hyperlipid did a series of posts about the deleterious health effects of fruit and vegetable consumption.

                                This is representative:

                                Hyperlipid: Fruit and vegetables (1) re post
                                Fascinating. Peter is wonderful. Thank you for posting that.

                                He's lumping in fruits and veg together which is interesting. In Dr Ede's blog, she was showing how veg is the body of the plant which the plant obviously doesn't want to have eaten and so it protects itself with anti-nutrients whereas the fruit is being offered up to animals. The plant wants this to be eaten so there are not the anti-nutrients involved.

                                In Peter's piece, it concentrates on the fructose angle. Hmmm.

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