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Paleobird's Adventures in Carnivorousness

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  • Your assumption is correct,
    Just needed to confirm you weren't talking about Atlantis , dolphins, aquaman etc.
    "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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    • Originally posted by Omni View Post
      Your assumption is correct,
      Just needed to confirm you weren't talking about Atlantis , dolphins, aquaman etc.

      Aquatic ape hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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      • Recent research indicates that O is not the 'oldest' type after all. I think it was A(but I'm too lazy to go look it up, sorry!).

        Kale lovers LOVE kale haters...it means more kale for US!

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        • Originally posted by Primal Moose View Post
          Paleobird, your thread definitely made a change in my eating habits. The majority of my eating lately has been meat centered. I do use spices and my daily coconut oil spoonful. Also feast on sauerkraut when the farmers market has local, raw, organic sauerkraut flavors I like. But, for the most part, meat and offal only. Definitely has made a difference I feel.
          Yep, meat centric does not mean exclusively meat.

          Originally posted by Omni View Post
          Worked fine for the Inuit, but they had high fat marine mamals to eat and high nutrition low calorie plant foods in summer periods along with customary nutritional practices which for the better part are lost now, these specific habits are what allowed them to survive in a harsh environment, not just eating lots of meat.
          I'd be concerned about protein intake, Nora Gedgaudas also holds the line about adequate protein, not excess, so my feelings are it's a bit too far on the fringe, but if that's what rocks your boat, then rock on.
          I agree with Nora about protein, for the record. And I am not trying to do Inuit reenactment. As Dr Ede pointed out, there are many meat centered diets in various HG societies throughout the world.

          Originally posted by Rojo View Post
          Interesting. But I wonder what the timeline is for various fruits and veggies vs. grains. IOW, have we had more time for evolutionary adjustment to, say, lettuce or apples as compared to wheat.

          I'm a proponent of aquatic evolution -- the idea that our ancestors branched from other primates as a result of becoming semi-aquatic. We would've gone from bananas to oysters.
          Yes, that's why I don't eat wheat. I'm not saying that eating veggies and fruits is something we have to evolve to do, we always did eat them. I'm just saying that we wouldn't have bothered with veggies unless starving.

          Originally posted by Omni View Post
          I assume you mean coastal living rather than actually aquatic, like with fins. Evolutionary migrations suggest we first traced the coastlines to inhabit the world before we ventured inland and as sea levels were lower at that time a good part of our history is underwater now.

          As for Bananas, well again I assume you are speaking figuratively as they are indigineous to Papua New Guinnea and were only spread throughout the world in the last 300 years.
          Don't confuse him with facts and stuff. Also I totally agree that seafood should play a large role in a healthy primal diet.

          Originally posted by Sabine View Post
          Kale lovers LOVE kale haters...it means more kale for US!
          You are more than welcome to all the kale I will never eat for the rest of my life. All yours.

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          • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
            Don't confuse him with facts and stuff.
            Ok, thanks for the swipe. I will never use bananas as a stand in for fruit. Or use a metaphor or simile or analogy.

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            • Whew! It took a couple days but I JUST finished reading the thread. Some very interesting items here. I personally think I am happier sans the veggies. I have never been an all veggie person (even during my vegetarian state-eek). I have been branching out more into the offal. PB, funny you brought up the petburger.. I was going to ask you about that. Is it richer with the organ meats then?
              Karin


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              What am I doing? Depends on the day.

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              • Interesting, but it doesn't really hold water, the hypothesis is a bit leaky at this point in time.
                "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                • Regarding fibre, one should take "The Fibre Menace" within the context that it is specifically related to those individuals with damaged GI tracts in need of repair.

                  In a healthy GI tract with the appropriate microbiota the bulk of both solouble and insolouble fibre is fermented and releases Short Chain Fatty acids (SCT's).

                  There is a twofold advantage in this:
                  1/ The SCT's are directly absorbed by the colon and can be utilised to power the colon on site, bypassing and reducing the load on the vascular system.
                  2/ The fermentation process produces a significant amount of heat, which reduces endogenous thermoregulation demand.

                  When you add these two together it is basically a significant free energy supplly from the microbiota through an outsourcing of digestion arrangement.
                  "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                  • Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                    Ok, thanks for the swipe. I will never use bananas as a stand in for fruit. Or use a metaphor or simile or analogy.
                    Oh, just joshin ya. Just shows what you get around here when you post before fact checking.

                    Originally posted by athomeontherange View Post
                    Whew! It took a couple days but I JUST finished reading the thread. Some very interesting items here. I personally think I am happier sans the veggies. I have never been an all veggie person (even during my vegetarian state-eek). I have been branching out more into the offal. PB, funny you brought up the petburger.. I was going to ask you about that. Is it richer with the organ meats then?
                    Yes, USWM Petburger tastes like really rich hamburger. I don't know how much of this is due to the high fat content and how much is the organ meat. But it does not taste like liver. If you have liver phobic people in the house, they would never know if you didn't tell them.

                    Originally posted by Omni View Post
                    Interesting, but it doesn't really hold water, the hypothesis is a bit leaky at this point in time.
                    True but one does not need to subscribe to the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis as such in order to see that humans always have and still do congregate by bodies of water. It is much easier to harvest shellfish than to run down a large mammal. But I don't think it has to be either/or. Sea food and sea veggies are still very prominent in my carnivorous diet. (As mentioned earlier, sea veggies are really algae as opposed to plants and as such get a free pass from some factions of the carnivorous community.)

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                    • Originally posted by Omni View Post
                      Regarding fibre, one should take "The Fibre Menace" within the context that it is specifically related to those individuals with damaged GI tracts in need of repair.

                      In a healthy GI tract with the appropriate microbiota the bulk of both solouble and insolouble fibre is fermented and releases Short Chain Fatty acids (SCT's).

                      There is a twofold advantage in this:
                      1/ The SCT's are directly absorbed by the colon and can be utilised to power the colon on site, bypassing and reducing the load on the vascular system.
                      2/ The fermentation process produces a significant amount of heat, which reduces endogenous thermoregulation demand.

                      When you add these two together it is basically a significant free energy supplly from the microbiota through an outsourcing of digestion arrangement.
                      Yes, but who gets the benefit of those SCTs, us or out little gut micro-budies?

                      Fiber menace does specifically say that it is not anti-fiber as long as that is soluble fiber that comes along with naturally ingested foods. It is mostly against the rampant overuse of fibre as a laxative and fiber as a bulking additive in products. So, it does say that if your gut is healthy there is nothing "wrong" with eating a salad.

                      I just question beyond "wrong" to "is it necessary or even beneficial?"

                      I'm not sure I want anything fermenting in my intestines, thankyouverymuch. We are perfectly capable of thermoregulation without a gassy vat of fermenting celery fiber to help. And why can't the body supply SCTs to the colon via the circulatory system? Why is having it produces in situ beneficial? It is beneficial for the microbes. They love it. I eat to feed ME, not some freeloading microbes.

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                      • Originally posted by Omni View Post
                        Interesting, but it doesn't really hold water, the hypothesis is a bit leaky at this point in time.
                        It sits in accepted anthropology like primal does in accepted nutrition.

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                        • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                          Oh, just joshin ya. Just shows what you get around here when you post before fact checking.
                          Well I wasn't stating a "fact" about bananas. But I'll make a note to myself: MDA Forum -- exceptionally literal-minded folks.

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                          • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                            Yes, but who gets the benefit of those SCTs, us or out little gut micro-budies?

                            Fiber menace does specifically say that it is not anti-fiber as long as that is soluble fiber that comes along with naturally ingested foods. It is mostly against the rampant overuse of fibre as a laxative and fiber as a bulking additive in products. So, it does say that if your gut is healthy there is nothing "wrong" with eating a salad.

                            I just question beyond "wrong" to "is it necessary or even beneficial?"

                            I'm not sure I want anything fermenting in my intestines, thankyouverymuch. We are perfectly capable of thermoregulation without a gassy vat of fermenting celery fiber to help. And why can't the body supply SCTs to the colon via the circulatory system? Why is having it produces in situ beneficial? It is beneficial for the microbes. They love it. I eat to feed ME, not some freeloading microbes.
                            The SCT's are a byproduct for the microbiota, so they break down the fibre and get life, by products are heat and SCT's and we get those, Win:Win situation, symbiosis in motion.

                            I have seen too many indications that our antibiotic preoccupations are a major contributer to our ill health to disregard the microbiota and hold a special place for them in my heart, well maybe in my gut.

                            As has been mentioned in the past, they outnumber us in cell count at 10:1 and are present on every external surface, skin and gut, they are actively communicating with our own cells through chemical signalling, we are an ecosystem, not a stand alone organism, we upset that ecosystem and a cascade ensues that we have no control over, they need us, we need them.

                            Mind you I'm only talking the fruit and veg fibres in reasonable quantities, not the brans and shredded cardboard gut mascerators.
                            "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                            • Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                              It sits in accepted anthropology like primal does in accepted nutrition.
                              Fair call.
                              "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                              • The short chain fatty acids, the most important of which seems to be butyrate, can also be eaten directly. Butter is the richest source of butyrate around.

                                Yes, the gut-buddies can produce some and we can make use of them but to me this seems like gleaning an already picked field. If you are a starving Grok, this gleaning could get you through a hard time. But why would we bother scavenging when we can eat what we need directly?

                                I totally agree about the need to maintain a healthy immune system and that antisepticness is not beneficial in the long run when taken to extremes. But I still don't see why we need fiber to do that. There are lots of species of gut bacteria. The ones that digest your celery fiber for you are not necessarily involved in immunity.

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