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Paleobird's Adventures in Carnivorousness

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  • Lucid,

    There are lots of vitamins, minerals, and phytochemicals that possess antioxidant properties. If they change from one to another, this isn't really an issue as an antioxidant is an antioxidant regardless.

    One good example is the omega-3 conversion you mentioned above. Humans cannot very efficiently convert ALA (found in plants) but cows can. Then we eat the cows who have converted this into a form we can use more readily. Omega-3 fats have been shown to have a pronounced antioxidant effect in humans. Even though we don't get it in the same form as in the grass, we in fact get a net BONUS by having this antioxidant change forms in the animal.

    So, things change form in the animal, yes, but sometimes, this change can be to our benefit. Even if we don't get EVERY constituent that is found in the grass directly, we get the benefits that they were supposed to have upon consumption in a way we couldn't have had we eaten the grass ourselves.
    "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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    • Drumroll,

      Thanks, I see we're on the same page with this really. I guess where my perception is different is that there are certain anti-cancer properties in some of the 'super foods', that can't be ingested any other way. Well, sure, people could buy the supplements, like pomegranate capsules or something, but I just buy the 100% pure POM juice, (no sugar). I use it to flavor fresh water, and squeeze a little lemon in it too. Very alkaline drink. Yes, the meats (good meats) are very important, but I worry about acidosis due to the endless research showing that low level acidity of the blood over many years of life, leads to disease processes like coronary artery disease, and cancers.

      Ultimately, it's all about balance. If we are what we eat, then I don't want to just be a piece of meat, for I also evolved from the ground. We're all made of star stuff, right?
      Last edited by Lucid Space; 04-07-2013, 10:25 PM. Reason: horrid run-on sentence lol
      We are like cattle, blocked in by industrial confines. Walking down aisle seven, I grab my wheat flakes like a foddered bovine. ~lucid space

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      • Originally posted by Lucid Space View Post
        Your thread is fascinating. Could you elaborate more on the quoted concept though?
        Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
        Hi PB,
        I'll take this one if you don't mind, but feel free to add additional stuff if you want.
        Lucid, you've heard the term "you are what you eat" correct? Well, this holds true for all animals, not just humans.
        Now cows and other ruminants like bison and lamb, can process grass as humans cannot. However, upon eating this grass, their body uses it to provide all of the fule and nutrients it needs to survive. The grass it eats makes up the nutrition present in the animal's body.

        So, how does a human get more "grass" into his diet? He eats grass-fed meats!

        The same concept holds true for other animals too. Whatever they ingest (good or bad), turns into nutrients (or anti-nutrients) in their body, and when we eat them, we get those for ourselves. It's part of why eating grass-fed/pastured animals is so beneficial as opposed to grain-fed/factory raised on soy and stuff.
        Thanks, Drumroll. I couldn't have said it better myself.

        Originally posted by Cryptocode View Post
        Yes, we care, Paleobird, and we wish you the greatest success. If you succeed perhaps we will too, when we get there.
        I hear you're only eating one meal a day. Can you give us some sample meals?
        Thank you. Well I usually make a pot of Teeccino or Rooibos in the morning and have that with or without a splash of coconut milk during the day. Then dinner is a feast. Big old hunk of either meat or seafood with some veggies as flavor enhancers like a steak with mushrooms and onions. Or a USWM Petburger meatloaf made with mexican salsa. Today there is a chuck roast cooking in the crock pot with a bit of my home made broth, onions, garlic, and just a splash of calvados.

        Originally posted by Lucid Space View Post
        my previous question was about the phytochemicals, aka antioxidants. Things consumed, do change by it's consumer, obviously. So, the grass conversion to fat is a good example. Using that logic, if an animal consumed a fruit....hypothetically, let's say a pineapple, would the bromelain get to me in the same way, as the antioxidant liver-detoxing anti inflammatory property that it is, if I was to consume the meat of the animal who ate it instead? My guess is no on that one.
        Originally posted by Lucid Space View Post
        All that being said, ^ I must state that I'm happy to be surrounded by people encouraging meat consumption. I was on the soy train for a while, while I attempted to be a veg. Soy for food: nothing truly good there from what I've read. My body was craving meat. Also, I'm an O blood type, and for what it's worth, I'm supposed to eat lots of meat! haha Now, I have no idea the science on all of that but I would like to learn more about it.
        Anyone else here, or PB, in the know about the blood type diet? I believe that O is the most primitive blood type....
        Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
        There are lots of vitamins, minerals, and phytochemicals that possess antioxidant properties. If they change from one to another, this isn't really an issue as an antioxidant is an antioxidant regardless.

        One good example is the omega-3 conversion you mentioned above. Humans cannot very efficiently convert ALA (found in plants) but cows can. Then we eat the cows who have converted this into a form we can use more readily. Omega-3 fats have been shown to have a pronounced antioxidant effect in humans. Even though we don't get it in the same form as in the grass, we in fact get a net BONUS by having this antioxidant change forms in the animal.

        So, things change form in the animal, yes, but sometimes, this change can be to our benefit. Even if we don't get EVERY constituent that is found in the grass directly, we get the benefits that they were supposed to have upon consumption in a way we couldn't have had we eaten the grass ourselves.
        I just should let Drumroll be my official spokesperson. This^^ plus, Lucid, the blood type diet is pseudo-scientific nonsense that has been debunked many times around here and elsewhere. I am very glad, however that you have seen the light on soy not being fit for human consumption. I wish I had done that before getting breast cancer.

        Originally posted by Lucid Space View Post
        Thanks, I see we're on the same page with this really. I guess where my perception is different is that there are certain anti-cancer properties in some of the 'super foods', that can't be ingested any other way. Well, sure, people could buy the supplements, like pomegranate capsules or something, but I just buy the 100% pure POM juice, (no sugar). I use it to flavor fresh water, and squeeze a little lemon in it too. Very alkaline drink. Yes, the meats (good meats) are very important, but I worry about acidosis due to the endless research showing that low level acidity of the blood over many years of life, leads to disease processes like coronary artery disease, and cancers.
        Please do some more research before you buy that whole acidity hype. First of all, everything you eat makes its first stop in a vat of hydrochloric acid, aka your stomach. You need that acidity to break down your food. Acidity is not inherently bad. The body tightly controls your blood PH. Nothing you eat is going to have any effect on that. What is measured is urine PH which fluctuates as the body does its job. So meat does NOT make your body acidic, it makes your urine a tiny bit more acidic for a little while. Big difference.

        Coming from a vegetarian background, I can see that you have been exposed to too much vegan propaganda for too long. Lots of us here have wandered down that tangent in life and understand.

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        • Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
          +1. Love this. My experience, too.
          Everyone keeps telling you to keep a flourishing gut biome so that you can digest vegetable matter well. To me that sounds like bringing home food to feed a billion or so unwanted or needed housepets. Eat your kimchi so you can digest your kale. Um, personally I'll take seconds on the potroast, hold the kale and the kimchi.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
            Everyone keeps telling you to keep a flourishing gut biome so that you can digest vegetable matter well. To me that sounds like bringing home food to feed a billion or so unwanted or needed housepets. Eat your kimchi so you can digest your kale. Um, personally I'll take seconds on the potroast, hold the kale and the kimchi.
            Well said. My pup eats enough, thank you!

            I'm thinking of starting an "I HATE Kale thread". Think I'll be kicked out MDA for trolling?
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            • Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
              Well said. My pup eats enough, thank you!

              I'm thinking of starting an "I HATE Kale thread". Think I'll be kicked out MDA for trolling?
              My Wolf Cub eats very well and he likes my carnivorousness.

              I would join you on a kale hate thread any day. They would have to kick us both out. That stuff is only fit for horse fodder, IMO.

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              • Nora Gedgaudas in this AHS video

                Nora Gedgaudas

                makes the point that plenty of animal sourced fats and proteins in your diet signal to your body that "hunting is good". This is the condition in which the cost benefit analysis of keeping extra fat tissue tips toward it being an impediment rather than a survival tool as it would be if your body is getting the signal through a low fat WW diet that there is a famine going on.

                Taking that and running with it just a bit further, I have this working hypothesis. So some background info.

                Plant matter in significant quantities is a "Plan B" food, something to keep you from starving when the hunt does not go well.

                In this TED talk Dr Christina Warinner does a poor job of "debunking" paleo strawmen but there were some interesting points in her talk nonetheless.

                Watch "Debunking the paleo diet: Christina Warinner at TEDxOU" Video at TEDxTalks

                She points out how Paleolithic vegetables and fruits would have had little resemblance to the benign and nutritious stuff we have created and engineered which now fills the produce department. She cited the anti nutrients, fibrousness, and spiky defenses we have bred out of them and the sugar content we have bred in. No self respecting Grok would have bothered to collect wild broccoli or wild lettuce unless s/he was starving. It would just not have been worth the energy expenditure to do so unless the tribe was seriously hungry and had no other alternatives.

                So, hypothesis: If you feed your body a lot of veggies, you are giving it the chemical signals that hunting sucks and it had better hold on to every available calorie for dear life. If you feed your body meat and fat on a regular basis, it gets the idea that hunting is great and it can relax and run the metabolism a bit higher even, catch some more of that yummy meat.

                What do you think?
                Last edited by Paleobird; 04-08-2013, 06:37 PM.

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                • Amen!!

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                  • My thoughts exactly! Tubers may have been a bit more palatable, but only when we discovered fire.
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                    • Pardon me but there is a pot roast calling my name.

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                      • Paleobird, your thread definitely made a change in my eating habits. The majority of my eating lately has been meat centered. I do use spices and my daily coconut oil spoonful. Also feast on sauerkraut when the farmers market has local, raw, organic sauerkraut flavors I like. But, for the most part, meat and offal only. Definitely has made a difference I feel.

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                        • I dunno,
                          Worked fine for the Inuit, but they had high fat marine mamals to eat and high nutrition low calorie plant foods in summer periods along with customary nutritional practices which for the better part are lost now, these specific habits are what allowed them to survive in a harsh environment, not just eating lots of meat.
                          I'd be concerned about protein intake, Nora Gedgaudas also holds the line about adequate protein, not excess, so my feelings are it's a bit too far on the fringe, but if that's what rocks your boat, then rock on.
                          Last edited by Omni; 04-09-2013, 03:57 AM.
                          "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                          • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                            So, hypothesis: If you feed your body a lot of veggies, you are giving it the chemical signals that hunting sucks and it had better hold on to every available calorie for dear life. If you feed your body meat and fat on a regular basis, it gets the idea that hunting is great and it can relax and run the metabolism a bit higher even, catch some more of that yummy meat.
                            Interesting. But I wonder what the timeline is for various fruits and veggies vs. grains. IOW, have we had more time for evolutionary adjustment to, say, lettuce or apples as compared to wheat.

                            I'm a proponent of aquatic evolution -- the idea that our ancestors branched from other primates as a result of becoming semi-aquatic. We would've gone from bananas to oysters.

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                            • I'm a proponent of aquatic evolution -- the idea that our ancestors branched from other primates as a result of becoming semi-aquatic. We would've gone from bananas to oysters.
                              I assume you mean coastal living rather than actually aquatic, like with fins. Evolutionary migrations suggest we first traced the coastlines to inhabit the world before we ventured inland and as sea levels were lower at that time a good part of our history is underwater now.

                              As for Bananas, well again I assume you are speaking figuratively as they are indigineous to Papua New Guinnea and were only spread throughout the world in the last 300 years.
                              "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                              • I assume you're quite literal.

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