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Paleobird's Adventures in Carnivorousness

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  • Did he? I gave up on that thread because it was more like an argument in search of a argument.
    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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    • I said it was just a "little" piece.

      And when it happens I'll be there to help him through the process with offerings of sympathy, my collected knowledge about oxalates, and lime juice coctails.
      I'd try to offer empathy, but I've never had a stone in spite of all the odds stacked against me... cause I avoid those stinky oxalates.

      I was being a little snarky. No I don't actually wish him a kidney stone...
      Otzi is harmless... a bit overly obsessed with his potatoes, but harmless and mostly live and let live.
      We've had some good chats and can agree to disagree about some things.


      Opinions are great... but you don't have to act like they are FACTS.
      And yeah... PK did end up schooling Otz pretty hard on that in the end of that particular thread.
      “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
      ~Friedrich Nietzsche
      And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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      • Well, starting this evening, I am going to be having a house guest for a few days which will be my first experience with trying to stay carnivorous while sharing meals with others. (The cabrito last night was shared with my BFF who is also Primal.)

        My BFF, when told about my carnivorous experiment over cabrito came up with a very good way of putting it. She said, "So, you still can have vegetables if you want but you are not obligated to them." That made a lot of sense.

        Those carnivorous purists over at ZIOH are nuts. I really think if anybody is looking for a resource for carnivorousness that is more balanced, they should check out the Dirty Carnivore site.

        The muscle meat and water only approach favored at ZIOH is, IMO, very unhealthy in the long run. Just because the leader of it can a does run marathons doesn't mean it's good for you. It's like the story everyone has of their great aunt Hilda who smoked three packs a day and lived to be 100 without lung cancer. Well, good for Hilda, but that doesn't mean I'm going to take up a 3 pack a day habit. IMO, nose to tail eating is essential to having a diet like this work well. Bone broth, organs, marrow, all would have been part of any carnivorous HG tribal eating. Don't tell me Grok just stripped out the steaks and tossed the rest of the carcass to the hyenas.

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        • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
          I just made 5 pounds of liver into pate'. I don't think I'll need to worry about scurvy for a while. I added this huge can of truffles I have had sitting on the shelf for ages and the flavor came out really nice.
          Any reference for Vit C in liver? Everything I've read says not much. Brains, thymus and pancreas are all much better sources of C
          Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

          Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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          • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
            I love goat yogurt. Goat kefir is good too.

            Oooh,nice spices. I would probably sub wine for the beer or just go with the broth.

            I'm really finding my bone broth to be a central staple in my new diet. It just feels so deeply nourishing.
            I have been finding the same with my bone broths. I made yak bone broth with turmeric and lots of black pepper and it was the bomb! I could just feel the nourishment every time I drank it piping hot! Just hope my current beef broth can hold it's own after that batch.

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            • Bone broth is super-awesome. According to the "old wise" tales, it apparently can raise the dead -- I understand this to be a legendary example (or hyperbole) that it is in fact very nourishing if one is very sick, and as such, they might get well. But saying so is not as poetic. Raising the dead is much more poetic.

              We put a little bit of our thai curry paste into our chicken bones ot make the most awesome broth. It's not too spicy -- just a hint of the flavor.

              I'm still eating veggies, but you guys like me anyway.

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              • Originally posted by Mud Flinger View Post
                I have been finding the same with my bone broths. I made yak bone broth with turmeric and lots of black pepper and it was the bomb! I could just feel the nourishment every time I drank it piping hot! Just hope my current beef broth can hold it's own after that batch.
                Heh heh. I have to.

                Not many people can say they've drank piping hot yak and not yakked.

                Ahem. Excuse me, I've been up since 0100, running on about 3 hours sleep and high on massive quantities of caffeine.
                My Journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread74692.html

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                • Originally posted by peril View Post
                  Any reference for Vit C in liver? Everything I've read says not much. Brains, thymus and pancreas are all much better sources of C
                  I know that pork liver has double the C as pork brains... (I do not think cow brains are available at all anymore.)
                  Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Pork, fresh, variety meats and by-products, brain, raw
                  Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Pork, fresh, variety meats and by-products, liver, raw
                  And chicken liver is slightly higher than pork.
                  Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Chicken, liver, all classes, cooked, simmered

                  Beef thymus it seems is a bit higher than chicken liver, it's true...
                  Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Beef, variety meats and by-products, thymus, raw
                  However beef pancreas falls behind and is the same as the pork brains...
                  Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Beef, variety meats and by-products, pancreas, raw

                  I also know that both pork and chicken liver are easier to get than the thymus or pancreas...

                  I can get the sweetbreads from my co-op sometimes though... and they make a nice treat.
                  I highly recommend them to anyone who has not tried them before.

                  Here's another one that's great if you can get it... spleen.
                  I can get pork spleen mostly. It comes in at the same as chicken liver at 13%...
                  Beef spleen is higher at 21% raw (interesting that cooked beef spleen actually has HIGHER vitamin C than raw at 23%). I haven't seen that offered through my co-op, I'll have to ask.
                  “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                  ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                  And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                    I know that pork liver has double the C as pork brains... (I do not think cow brains are available at all anymore.)
                    Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Pork, fresh, variety meats and by-products, brain, raw
                    Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Pork, fresh, variety meats and by-products, liver, raw
                    And chicken liver is slightly higher than pork.
                    Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Chicken, liver, all classes, cooked, simmered

                    Beef thymus it seems is a bit higher than chicken liver, it's true...
                    Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Beef, variety meats and by-products, thymus, raw
                    However beef pancreas falls behind and is the same as the pork brains...
                    Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Beef, variety meats and by-products, pancreas, raw

                    I also know that both pork and chicken liver are easier to get than the thymus or pancreas...

                    I can get the sweetbreads from my co-op sometimes though... and they make a nice treat.
                    I highly recommend them to anyone who has not tried them before.

                    Here's another one that's great if you can get it... spleen.
                    I can get pork spleen mostly. It comes in at the same as chicken liver at 13%...
                    Beef spleen is higher at 21% raw (interesting that cooked beef spleen actually has HIGHER vitamin C than raw at 23%). I haven't seen that offered through my co-op, I'll have to ask.
                    But beef liver only comes in at 2% of RDV per 100g and veal liver is only 1% of RDV per 100g. Choose your liver carefully

                    OTOH lamb brains are 27% of RDV per 100g.

                    So 400g of lamb brains per day will get you the RDV. A carnivore has to eat a lot of offal
                    Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                    Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

                    Comment


                    • Yeah... I always make my pate from chicken liver. I prefer it.

                      Rabbit livers are eaten lightly sauteed every chance I can get them... because they are DIVINE.
                      I can never find any infor on them though.
                      Hmm... I never see lamb brains on offer anywhere... I wonder if goat brains are similar in content.

                      And actually it's not a big deal... You know she isn't 100% carnivore.
                      She has stated repeatedly that she still eats veg that she likes... and uses things like lime in her Guac. or water.

                      Let's see...
                      1 avo, about 33% dv C., + a little chunk of tomato chopped, about 10% dv C, a lime... say an oz of juice... a squeeze of it goes in the guac and some in a glass of sparkling water. Total 57% C.
                      4 oz chicken livers (in a day... that's not too much)... about 50% dv C

                      Personally I would have put like an ounce of scallions in that guac for another 10% of C too... and had stinky breath for it, but whatevs.
                      Wow... just some Guac and some livers and that's more that 100% of the C she needed. That's terribly difficult.

                      Today I bought some beautiful clams... fresh live buggers. Because I need to feed my anemone, and me.
                      6oz cleaned and cooked nice and gentle... 62% DV.
                      Yummy.
                      Last edited by cori93437; 01-23-2013, 09:37 PM.
                      “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                      ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                      And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by peril View Post
                        But beef liver only comes in at 2% of RDV per 100g and veal liver is only 1% of RDV per 100g. Choose your liver carefully

                        OTOH lamb brains are 27% of RDV per 100g.

                        So 400g of lamb brains per day will get you the RDV. A carnivore has to eat a lot of offal
                        Vitamin c can be destroyed by heat so I wouldn't be reliant on cooked foods for C sources.

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                        • I've been doing EMF with calorie control plus just got a Fitbit last week and am walking 5 miles daily...and I am gaining weight. Ack! So tonight I said "what the hell" and ate a 6 or 8 ounce porterhouse. Only steak. And it was good. I am replete.

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                          • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                            So then I start researching carnivorousness and came to realize all the frankly toxic aspects of most veggies (things such as oxalates binding other nutrients) and the relative scarcity of nutrients in them that can actually be absorbed once you figure in the fiber factor.

                            Ideas to chew on........<chomp, chomp,chomp>
                            I'll be following along with your posts on a meat-centered diet. When I did this several years ago I had great success for awhile (weight loss, energy, outlook, etc) and then after about 9 months, I didn't. I still don't eat much fruit or green vegetables and try to limit wheat but it's more of a habit now rather than some deep concern for my health and well-being.

                            As to the anti-nutrients in veggies and grains and the potential for adverse effects, Chris Kresser had an interview with Mat Lalonde and covered that topic in depth. The take-away is that the danger is somewhat overstated:

                            What Science Really Says About the Paleo Diet – With Mat Lalonde

                            It's an hour long podcast with a transcript on the site.
                            Retirement has afforded me the ultimate affluence, that of free time (Sahlins/Wells)

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                            • I have heard that your need for certain vitamins, including C, changes with your diet. You need less than the RDA on a meat centered diet and more on a grain centered diet. Steffanson showed that he could eat nothing but boiled meat for over a year and not get scurvy. Anyway, "dirty carnivores" aren't going to be eating a 100% boiled meat diet. They're going to get a little veggies as spices, condiments and occasionally as side dishes as desired. Makes total sense to me. Even as a grain centered eater I rarely ate vegetables every day. Even as a grain centered vegetarian I ate fewer vegetables than I do now, which is quite sad.
                              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                              • Well, starting this evening, I am going to be having a house guest for a few days which will be my first experience with trying to stay carnivorous while sharing meals with others.
                                i have been doing this all along as i have the kids to feed. sometimes we just do diff meals. we have mince for example, i make them nachos and i make kitfo with the rest. or we have a roast with bone broth reduction gravy. they have roast potatoes, kumara and steamed veges with theirs. i just have the meat and gravy. same principle with lamb chops and steak. depending on if your house guests eat some form of starch, you could alway make something like a bollito misto, or portugese pork belly with clams ( which i make with wild hog and cockles), or even something a bit more dirty carnivore like cioppino. then they can have crusty bread and butter or some rice and some salad or veges to go with it and you wont just be eating the steak so to speak.

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