Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Resistant Starch - A Solution In Search of a Problem

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
    Otzi, if I surmise right, she was talking effectiveness was seen at dosages of 15 or more grams of resistant starch daily.

    She also says one cup of potatoes is about 1 gram of resistant starch.

    What is .5 pounds of potatoes? Maybe three cups? Ok, and for a pound, double it. This is just a guesstimate of course, but that's about 3-6 grams daily of RS, far away from the doses she says were seen to be effective.

    Interpret that as you want though. She also says that potatoes might not be the best source because of how quickly and how much they effect the blood sugar, if I interpret that right.

    Furthermore, she points out that beans are a better source of RS than you seemed to be implying before. Far better than your beloved potatoes at least.
    I hope RSQueen checks back and enlightens us.

    I started lovin' spuds before I heard about RS, so no matter, they are firmly entrenched in my diet! I'm still thinking my plan of some hot, some cold, some raw and a few green bananas would be a really good plan. Like I've said, most LC PB diets are completely void of all sources of RS. Maybe in this case some is better than none.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by otzi View Post
      I wanted to ask you a few questions about your experiences with RS.

      About how much per day are you trying to get and from where?

      Have you noticed any benefits?

      Do you think the amount of RS in about 1/2 to 1 pound of potato, with some eaten hot, some cold, and some raw is enough to make a difference?

      Thanks.
      I eat RS because it keeps me regular, and helps me not be hungry throughout the day. I use the Hi-maize resistant starch because it's the easiest way to get RS. I mix about a tablespoon into a smoothie for breakfast (along with a banana, fruit and yogurt). I absolutely notice benefits - when I don't get RS, I get constipated and much hungrier.

      I do think the amount of RS in 1/2 to 1 pound of potatoes is enough to make a difference. I haven't ever eaten raw potatoes but it wouldn't take much raw potato to make a difference.

      I am less intrigued by the microbiome composition than I am by what they do. The LSU team has shown that the fermentation of resistant starch in the gut increases production of GLP-1 and PYY in animals and that the levels of these hormones stay elevated in the bloodstream for 20+ hours. These are the hormones targeted by the diabetes drugs like Januvia, which are the latest generation of wonder drugs - they facilitate weight loss and blood sugar control. The half life of GLP-1 is roughly 5 minutes. But, RS is a big insoluble starch granule that ferments over hours and hours through the intestinal tract - which produces anti-hunger hormones for hours and hours. Those same hormones improve insulin sensitivity. These shifts in metabolism are all good. Regardless of the mechanisms, I feel less hungry and consider regularity as a side-benefit.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
        Otzi, if I surmise right, she was talking effectiveness was seen at dosages of 15 or more grams of resistant starch daily.

        She also says one cup of potatoes is about 1 gram of resistant starch.

        What is .5 pounds of potatoes? Maybe three cups? Ok, and for a pound, double it. This is just a guesstimate of course, but that's about 3-6 grams daily of RS, far away from the doses she says were seen to be effective.

        Interpret that as you want though. She also says that potatoes might not be the best source because of how quickly and how much they effect the blood sugar, if I interpret that right.

        Furthermore, she points out that beans are a better source of RS than you seemed to be implying before. Far better than your beloved potatoes at least.
        Raw potatoes would be a better source than beans, but cooked potatoes contain far less RS than beans.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by otzi View Post
          I was looking for RS supplements to show you and accidently stumbled across this: http://foodaust.com.au/wp-content/up...lement_web.pdf

          There don't seem to be any supplements available that are purely RS, but a company called Hi-Maize makes a purified RS for the food industry, so I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up in health food stores as a supplement. I'm not too sure I like the thought of highly purified corn starch, though.
          Hi-maize isn't in health food stores, but you can get it at King Arthur Flour, a specialty bakery supply company in Vermont. They sell it two ways - as a basic ingredient, and premixed into flour to make a high fiber flour. And it's not chemically modified (as was stated very early in this thread). It is starch from high amylose corn that has been heat moisture treated to help the long amylose chains of glucose line up and crystallize (helps it to resist digestion). Out of the 500+ studies published in the scientific literature, the majority used this ingredient or ingredients like this.

          I cited 15 grams of resistant starch showed improved insulin sensitivity in overweight men. Yes they used a lot (3 tablespoons of the isolated ingredient), but they showed a 56% improvement in insulin sensitivity. That's huge. Men who ate 6 tablespoons had a 73% improved insulin sensitivity. Is it likely that insulin resistant people who eat 5 or 10 grams of resistant starch a day see some improvement - you betcha. And since 35% of American adults have prediabetes (are insulin resistant, according to the US Centers for Disease Control), eating more RS on purpose is a no brainer.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by RSQueen View Post
            I cited 15 grams of resistant starch showed improved insulin sensitivity in overweight men. Yes they used a lot (3 tablespoons of the isolated ingredient), but they showed a 56% improvement in insulin sensitivity. That's huge. Men who ate 6 tablespoons had a 73% improved insulin sensitivity. Is it likely that insulin resistant people who eat 5 or 10 grams of resistant starch a day see some improvement - you betcha. And since 35% of American adults have prediabetes (are insulin resistant, according to the US Centers for Disease Control), eating more RS on purpose is a no brainer.
            Well for one...I couldn't find the citation. I found the statement that you "have seen", but not the citation. I coulda missed it though if you wanna repost that. The experiment could be interesting to read.

            And yeah, there are indications for a reduced carb load improving insulin sensitivity, exercise for certain, more sleep for certain, better lipid profiie, acute or chronic illness, and so on.

            Honestly I see our symbiotic relationship with these little buggers as yet another adaptation to a missing ingredient in the diet. In groups that eat a lot of starch with little access to animal (like Kitavins maybe) this process would enable them to get the SCFA they need. But, in a group that relies little on starch with sufficient animal product we have little to no use for them. IMO its yet another example of how resilient and versatile we can be in adapting to a variety of environmental factors. This has been shown over and over by the diversity of diets that studied humans can thrive on.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
              Well for one...I couldn't find the citation. I found the statement that you "have seen", but not the citation. I coulda missed it though if you wanna repost that. The experiment could be interesting to read.
              I found the abstract here: The intestinal microbiota in aged mice is modulated by dietary resistant starch and correlated with improvements in host responses - Tachon - 2012 - FEMS Microbiology Ecology - Wiley Online Library

              Abstract

              Dietary interventions might prevent or reverse age-related declines in health through modification of the activity and composition of the intestinal microbiota. As a first step toward more comprehensive evaluations of single dietary components on healthy aging, 16S rRNA gene amplicon sequencing was applied to determine the structure of the bacterial communities in the ceca of 20-month-old healthy mice fed energy-controlled diets containing 0, 18, or 36% type 2 resistant starch (RS) from high-amylose maize (HAM-RS2). The cecal microbiota of mice fed a diet depleted in RS and containing the readily digestible carbohydrate amylopectin were dominated by bacteria in the Firmicutes phylum and contained low levels of Bacteroidetes and Actinobacteria. In contrast, mice fed diets containing HAM-RS2 were colonized by higher levels of Bacteroidetes and Bifidobacterium, Akkermansia, and Allobaculum species in proportions that were dependent on the concentration of the dietary fiber. The proportions of Bifidobacterium and Akkermansia were positively correlated with mouse feeding responses, gut weight, and expression levels of proglucagon, the precursor of the gut anti-obesity/diabetic hormone GLP-1. This study showed that aging mice harbor a distinct microbiota, which can be modulated by RS and enriched for bacteria that are associated with improved health.
              But the full-text costs $$. Anybody have it?

              edit: just stumbled across this: http://www.nature.com/ajg/journal/v9...g2000259a.html

              OBJECTIVE:


              Dietary starch that escapes digestion in the small intestine may be quantitatively more important than dietary fiber as a substrate for fermentation. The products of fermentation have important implications in the pathogenesis of colorectal cancer and other diseases of the large bowel, which are uncommon in Africans but have a high prevalence in Western populations.
              METHODS:


              Maize porridge is a staple of most blacks in South Africa. Stale maize porridge (high-resistant starch [HRS]) seems to induce greater fermentation in the large bowel than fresh maize porridge (low-resistant starch [LRS]).
              RESULTS:


              In the present study, healthy colostomy subjects fed stale maize porridge had significantly more production of short-chain fatty acids (SCFA) (mean SCFA, HRS = 182.6; mean SCFA, LRS = 116.1; p < 0.05) in their colostomy effluent together with a significant drop in stool pH (mean pH, HRS = 5.91; mean pH, LRS = 6.70; p < 0.001). The SCFA butyrate (mean, HRS = 35.1; mean, LRS = 17.6; p < 0.05) and acetate (mean, HRS = 93.9; mean, LRS = 65.8; p < 0.05) were significantly elevated on the stale maize porridge diet when compared with consumption of fresh maize porridge. SCFA propionate (mean, HRS = 43.1; mean, LRS = 24.8; p = 0.05), also increased with stale maize porridge, but was not statistically significant.
              CONCLUSION:


              A high-resistant starch diet and its resultant increase in fermentation products may be partly responsible for protecting the black population against colorectal cancers and other large bowel diseases.
              Last edited by otzi; 01-26-2013, 10:16 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                Honestly I see our symbiotic relationship with these little buggers as yet another adaptation to a missing ingredient in the diet. In groups that eat a lot of starch with little access to animal (like Kitavins maybe) this process would enable them to get the SCFA they need. But, in a group that relies little on starch with sufficient animal product we have little to no use for them.
                This^^^

                Plus, first it was raw potatoes, now it's "stale maize porridge"? The mouth waters.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                  This^^^

                  Plus, first it was raw potatoes, now it's "stale maize porridge"? The mouth waters.
                  Does your mind not seek out novel ideas? It must, otherwise you wouldn't be on a ketogenic path. I remember a year or so ago, reading that American slaves back in the day were fed mainly corn meal and a small amount of pork fat. I couldn't comprehend how a full-grown man could work under slave conditions doing manual labor on such meager rations. The slave owners also wanted their slaves to be as strong as possible, produce off-spring, and not be sick...it is now becoming a bit clearer that corn meal was the key.

                  Please, this is all just about increasing my knowledge of a 'new-to-me' food item (RS).

                  I have spent the last hour searching PubMed for RS contents in foods, but so far, every article that I find is 'abstract-only', but the sheer amount of papers on RS is amazing.

                  Yes, a diet of raw potatoes and cold corn porridge would be pretty rough! But if including something like this in nominal amounts brought great reward, wouldn't it be worth it? Your pate' would make some people barf! I read many comments on here from newby's about 'bone broth--gross!' or 'I can't do liver', but they are soon converted when they learn of it's benefits.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by RSQueen View Post

                    I do think the amount of RS in 1/2 to 1 pound of potatoes is enough to make a difference. I haven't ever eaten raw potatoes but it wouldn't take much raw potato to make a difference.
                    It seems to me raw potato is about the same as a green banana. Both are fairly edible. The greener a banana the harder it is to eat. Plantains probably also fit in here, but they are nearly impossible to eat raw--make your mouth pucker!

                    So, RS Queen, in your estimation then 5g is enough to make a noticeable difference for you? Have you tried bigger (30g) doses?

                    Comment


                    • Amazing how people materialize just at the right time to "rescue" a thread, isn't it?

                      Comment


                      • The slaves were fed that because it was cheap not because it was health food. Get real.

                        Yes, I do think about and seek out novel ideas. That is why I am trying carnivorousness. My digestive system is very happy about ditching the fiber laden CW.

                        And don't you go insulting my pate'. That's just not nice.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Terry H View Post
                          Amazing how people materialize just at the right time to "rescue" a thread, isn't it?

                          My thoughts exactly.
                          Starting Weight: 197.5
                          Current Weight: 123
                          Far healthier!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                            Does your mind not seek out novel ideas? It must, otherwise you wouldn't be on a ketogenic path. I remember a year or so ago, reading that American slaves back in the day were fed mainly corn meal and a small amount of pork fat. I couldn't comprehend how a full-grown man could work under slave conditions doing manual labor on such meager rations. The slave owners also wanted their slaves to be as strong as possible, produce off-spring, and not be sick...it is now becoming a bit clearer that corn meal was the key.

                            Please, this is all just about increasing my knowledge of a 'new-to-me' food item (RS).

                            I have spent the last hour searching PubMed for RS contents in foods, but so far, every article that I find is 'abstract-only', but the sheer amount of papers on RS is amazing.

                            Yes, a diet of raw potatoes and cold corn porridge would be pretty rough! But if including something like this in nominal amounts brought great reward, wouldn't it be worth it? Your pate' would make some people barf! I read many comments on here from newby's about 'bone broth--gross!' or 'I can't do liver', but they are soon converted when they learn of it's benefits.
                            Actually "corn meal" was not the key.
                            A person who eats mainly cornmeal and fat(unless it is nixtamalized corn meal, as the Native American's well knew) will become nutrient deficient and very sick. (Lysine and Niacin deficiency.)

                            Just ask the Spanish... they tried that shit.

                            You have to have other food sources. Meat, potatoes, legumes, somethin.
                            In the south there was a lot of field/cow pea eating with that corn meal.
                            The white men considered field/cow peas animal fodder. They were fed to the slaves as well as the animals.
                            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                              Actually "corn meal" was not the key.
                              A person who eats mainly cornmeal and fat(unless it is nixtamalized corn meal, as the Native American's well knew) will become nutrient deficient and very sick. (Lysine and Niacin deficiency.)
                              This is an interesting, and maybe, accurate account of how at least some slaves were fed, if not, I apologize to anyone this discussion may be offending... from Hushpuppy Nation » What Did Slaves Eat? :

                              The food provided to plantation slaves varied widely depending on several factors: time period, location, what food the plantation produced, and the owner’s economic situation all came into play.

                              Frederick Douglass, the escaped slave and abolitionist, wrote in 1845: “The men and women slaves received, as their monthly allowance of food, eight pounds of pork, or its equivalent in fish, and one bushel of corn meal.”
                              and

                              In The Life of Josiah Henson (1849), Henson, who was born a slave in1789 in Charles County, Maryland, wrote: “The principal food of those upon my master’s plantation consisted of corn-meal and salt herrings; to which was added in summer a little buttermilk, and the few vegetables which each might raise for himself and his family, on the little piece of ground which was assigned to him for the purpose, called a truck-patch.”

                              On coastal plantations, like those in the South Carolina Lowcountry, broken or dirty rice was plentiful and was a staple of the slave diet.

                              Archeological evidence from excavations of slave cabins at Ashland Plantation in Louisiana shows that in some cases slaves added to their diet by fishing and trapping. The bones of opossums, raccoons, rabbits, wild birds and fish such as freshwater drum, gar, catfish, sunfish, and mackerel have been found at the site.

                              In Flowerdew Hundred: The Archaeology of a Virginia Plantation, 1619-1864 (1993), James Deetz detailed archeological findings of food remnants from slave cabins at Flowerdew Hundred plantation on the James River near Hopewell, Virginia. Deetz found the foods most often eaten by slaves at Flowerdew Hundred, based on the amounts of identifiable remains, were pork, catfish, various types of birds and fish, sturgeon, chicken, beef and opossum.
                              Deetz also found evidence that slaves on this plantation also regularly supplemented their diets by trapping and fishing as well as by keeping pigs and maintaining garden plots.

                              According to Patricia A. Gibbs, a former member of the research staff at Colonial Williamsburg, there is documentary and archaeological evidence that slaves grew a variety of plants in these gardenssuch as lima beans, pole beans, cabbages, collards, corn, cymlings (patty pan squash), onions, peanuts, black-eyed or other field peas, potatoes (both Irish and sweet), and pumpkins.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Terry H View Post
                                Amazing how people materialize just at the right time to "rescue" a thread, isn't it?
                                I don't see why this RS talk has become such a hot-button. You'd think I was making money off it! If I came out and said "Eat mouse poop and your testosterone will double" or some nonsense with no backing, then made up fake citations I could understand, but to just discuss the value of RS in a healthy diet?

                                Lots of money being made on Raspberry Ketones and Green Coffee Bean Extract, not so much on RS.

                                For some reason, everyone is putting the onus on me to prove the point, when all one would need to do to shut me up forever (well, maybe just for a minute) would be to show a couple studies that say RS is bad or not needed. None out there, I've looked.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X