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  • #16
    Originally posted by MamaGrok View Post
    We're keeping in mind that Choco is obsessed with carbs and thinks human evolution began in Africa, instead of culminating there.
    If people around here were afraid of fat, I'd be taking the exact opposite stance.

    What irritates me is a community of people that is supposed to be embracing an evolutionary diet, then ignores 1/3 of the food on Earth that we evolved on.

    This community as a whole thrives on obsession. We need to be counter-culture. We love shock and awe. I guess that's why this "extreme" lifestyle attracts us? So our friends can marvel as we eat bacon and put butter in our coffee so it's taboo and anti-conventional wisdom?

    People around here love to throw the Inuit up on a pedestal for their diet. However, they ignore that the Inuit are a recent culture, they STILL ate 15% of their daily calories from carbohydrate (which is more than the keto people around here) and the overwhelming majority of traditional societies eat more carbs than fat.

    People around here love to point out that we don't NEED carbohydrate to survive, but they leave out how we don't NEED saturated fat or cholesterol to survive, either. That's how vegetarians manage to limp by - their body will convert carbs into the fats and sterols they need to survive, just like our bodies will convert proteins into the glucose we need to survive. At the expense of our own health and longevity.

    People around here like to say the brain can run on ketones, but they fail to mention that ketones are only supplemental - your brain always runs on glucose, even in full-blown ketosis.

    I take issue with the hypocrisy. Eat all whole foods. Your body wants a little bit of everything - fat, protein and glucose. Start 33%f/33%p/33%c and adjust accordingly until you feel best.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 01-08-2013, 01:37 PM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
      We're not supposed to get 60% dietary calories from fat .....
      Somebody please break this ground shaking revelation to my body...seeing hows after food is stored for a later date, and your not eating, self cannibalization for nutrients and energy comprises just about that amount (approx. 60%) from fat. Seems to me a perfectly good reason that your diet should be made up of ratios that approximate such.

      Hey looking at your ratios looks like paleo/zone. I think crossfitters started trying that several years back.
      Last edited by Neckhammer; 01-08-2013, 01:45 PM.

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      • #18
        Really no care. My initial response was directed for Knifegills individual situation. It is quite irrelevant to turn a thread about his particular issues into a chance to preach from a soapbox about the community at large.

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        • #19
          Exactly. I agree with most of what Choco posted above - for people who are healthy and looking where to start in paleo. That's not Knifegill's situation. I don't even claim that Knifegill needs to stop eating fruit. There is simply the reality that carbs out of sync with temperature, light cycles, etc., will very often worsen a situation of ill health. Ketosis is needed, for a time (that may range from short to long, depending on the illness), for many people with less-than-perfect health. Not all.

          There is no one preaching on this thread ketosis-for-life-for-everyone. Context.
          5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
          Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
          Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
          Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
          ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

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          • #20
            I don't know how long it would take, but adding in 3-5 pieces of fruit everyday over two weeks seems like too much to me. I started with one piece for a week or two, then two. Sometimes I go over that and get a sugar headache (from really sugar dense things like dates, mostly).

            I also find that the more fruit I eat, the less I can fast successfully. Depending on your activity levels, I would say most people don't need more than a few servings of fruit a day (and by that, I mean 3 reasonable sized pieces, like a banana, an apple, and an orange, not a whole melon). That's about how much I had when I was biking a few miles everyday during the summer and it felt great. I'm not active at all right now and too much fruit just makes me hungrier.
            Depression Lies

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            • #21
              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post


              I take issue with the hypocrisy. Eat all whole foods. Your body wants a little bit of everything - fat, protein and glucose. Start 33%f/33%p/33%c and adjust accordingly until you feel best.
              well stated!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                This community as a whole thrives on obsession. We need to be counter-culture. We love shock and awe. I guess that's why this "extreme" lifestyle attracts us? So our friends can marvel as we eat bacon and put butter in our coffee so it's taboo and anti-conventional wisdom?

                People around here love to ....
                Pot, meet kettle.
                Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                Griff's cholesterol primer
                5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                bloodorchid is always right

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                  Me too. What was broke about your old diet that needed fixing?
                  Didn't you see his entire thread about "aging prematurely" wherein the entire thread basically screamed at him to add back in sugars and carbs RIGHT away, less he look like he belonged in a retirement home within weeks?

                  Seriously, people made WAY too big of a deal of it in that thread.
                  "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                    Didn't you see his entire thread about "aging prematurely" wherein the entire thread basically screamed at him to add back in sugars and carbs RIGHT away, less he look like he belonged in a retirement home within weeks?

                    Seriously, people made WAY too big of a deal of it in that thread.
                    Yeah, I saw that thread in which me telling him to de-stress and get some more quantity and quality of sleep got lost in all the carb pushing.

                    I'm not trying to dictate his macro ratios one way or the other here, I'm just saying that that whole issue is massively moot when you are not getting enough sleep.

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                    • #25
                      I think that having bad sleep is the #1 thing about aging prematurely.

                      So maybe this isn't a diet thing but more of a lifestyle thing?

                      Edit: @PB +1
                      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                      Griff's cholesterol primer
                      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                      bloodorchid is always right

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                        Yeah, I saw that thread in which me telling him to de-stress and get some more quantity and quality of sleep got lost in all the carb pushing.

                        I'm not trying to dictate his macro ratios one way or the other here, I'm just saying that that whole issue is massively moot when you are not getting enough sleep.
                        You won't hear me arguing with that!
                        "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                          I think that having bad sleep is the #1 thing about aging prematurely.

                          So maybe this isn't a diet thing but more of a lifestyle thing
                          Definitely! A messed up Circadian rhythm wreaks havoc in many ways. No dietary change is enough to counteract the negative effects, unfortunately.
                          Life is not a matter of having good cards, but of playing a poor hand well.

                          - Robert Louis Stevenson

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                          • #28
                            I've experienced the same difficulties digesting fruit, especially apples and oranges. It is possible to be fructose intolerant (check out this article Understanding Food Allergies and Intolerances &bull; AGA Intolerance)
                            Eating fruit other than berries and avocados causes me sugar cravings, bloating, stomach cramping, sugar highs and crashes. If you know fruit causes you problems, don't second guess your decision to eliminate it!

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                            • #29
                              Knife, were you able to digest fruit and dairy before starting paleo?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                                Why? Dairy intolerance again is almost always a product of poor gut health. This is exactly why very low carbers tend to have every food sensitivity under the sun. Animal protein and fat are healthy - in appropriate quantities. We're not supposed to get 60% dietary calories from fat and 30% dietary calories from protein. We produce amylase in our saliva for a reason. We preferentially burn glucose over fatty acids for a reason. We evolved in areas where fruit and starch is plentiful and lean game meats are the norm. We didn't evolve in the arctic. when you ignore the most important macronutrient for your body - carbohydrate - your gut colonies literally die off and you run into all these intolerances because you can no longer digest food.

                                Step #1: Start taking a probiotic with all your meals.
                                Step #2: Start introducing small quantities of full fat fermented dairy - Greek yogurt or kefir ideally.
                                Step #3: Start introducing small amounts of cheeses.

                                Once you get past that part, your gut bacteria should be getting better. Supplement with soluble fiber - white potatoes, sweet potatoes, bananas, etc.
                                As much as I loved reintroducing carbs for a while, I had to kiss them goodbye after trying everything else first. Just recently did it on Christmas day and I have a whole new gut just in that short time - not to mention many other annoyances that have improved. Despite enzymes, probiotics, you name it - nothing worked. A couple of days of nothing but meat, coconut oil and milk and limited veggies gave me my answer. Could be SIBO or something similar that I thought I'd left behind after my previous years of ketosis. I'm thinking I'll be staying here again for a while, but I guess time will tell....again. I would have tried the dairy route but am allergic to casein, have been since I was a baby. I loved the healthy carbs, but the more I ate that way, the worse my gut became, and at a faster rate.

                                I loved the Perfect Health Diet for a while there (as you and I discussed). Damn guts. Back to LC. To be continued, I'm sure.

                                Hope you figure it out, Knifegill. And get some sleep.
                                Life is not a matter of having good cards, but of playing a poor hand well.

                                - Robert Louis Stevenson

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