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  • Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
    i don't think i've ever seen any woman with pcos say that primal doesn't work, me included o.O
    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
    Otzi, that was a cheap shot dude. As Grandma would say, "Lower than a snake's hips". IMO, you owe bloodorchid an apology.
    Sorry, all! That wasn't directed at anyone, just wanted to highlight the many, serious and real conditions that can foil a diet attempt. I could have just as easily (and maybe should have) said a "pre-diabetic, hypothyroid, fatty-livered, man with diverticulosis".

    It's like when people say "ketogenic diets suck" and Paleobird says "no they don't" who's right here?

    Someone once said: "your broke isn't my broke" Truer words never uttered!

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    • thank you paleobird

      and i'm glad you didn't mean me, i stuck up for your potatoes
      beautiful
      yeah you are

      Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
      lol

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      • Potatoes suck!

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        • too many will suck for my pcos for sure
          beautiful
          yeah you are

          Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
          lol

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          • Thought experiment my ass.
            "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

            B*tch-lite

            Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by tapper47 View Post
              Morbidly obese people are not overeating because they are unable to control themselves. They are suffering from cellular starvation.
              My thoughts exactly. A person in good health would presumably release stored body fat to make up for lack of incoming calories, but that function seems to shut off in the case of obesity. Makes me wonder how the man who water-fasted was able to shed that fat so efficiently if he was starving at the cellular level.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by tapper47 View Post
                Morbidly obese people are not overeating because they are unable to control themselves. They are suffering from cellular starvation.

                There have been cases where obese patients have not been fed and have still gained weight. It is not a simple problem.
                Do you have a link or something to back this up? What does "gained weight" mean here? I can understand that water accumulation may happen due to edema, but fat gain on very little or no food at all? How can that be possible?
                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                - Schopenhauer

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Kata View Post
                  My thoughts exactly. A person in good health would presumably release stored body fat to make up for lack of incoming calories, but that function seems to shut off in the case of obesity. Makes me wonder how the man who water-fasted was able to shed that fat so efficiently if he was starving at the cellular level.
                  I would like the see the source. Not that I am a cynic

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                  • Why not ask quelsen about starving and ending up 400+lbs.
                    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                    • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                      Do you have a link or something to back this up? What does "gained weight" mean here? I can understand that water accumulation may happen due to edema, but fat gain on very little or no food at all? How can that be possible?
                      It was a study I read some time ago. I will look around and see if I can find a link.

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                      • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                        Why not ask quelsen about starving and ending up 400+lbs.
                        Do you believe it is possible to accumulate fat without any food at all sbhikes? And related to our though-experiment, do you also think there may be a possibility that some of the candidates after one year in a controlled environment, on a modified fast, may be even fatter than at the start of the experiment?
                        "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                        - Schopenhauer

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                          Do you believe it is possible to accumulate fat without any food at all sbhikes? And related to our though-experiment, do you also think there may be a possibility that some of the candidates after one year in a controlled environment, on a modified fast, may be even fatter than at the start of the experiment?
                          I think a small sub-set of people are born with Leptin dysregulation and are obese from childhood on. Look into the AMGEN Leptin Trials HHMI Bulletin: Leptin's Legacy

                          In your thought experiment, you would have to hand-pick everyone for similar metabolic systems. If your compound was filled with young men who had just successfully completed the Marines Basic Military Training the outcome would surely be different than if you just picked random high school graduates.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tapper47 View Post
                            I would like the see the source. Not that I am a cynic
                            What about a reference from Mark Sisson to an obese Scotsman that also fasted for more than one year then:

                            Originally posted by Mark Sisson View Post
                            If that sounds harsh or even unrealistic, consider the story of the Scotsman. Back in 1965, an obese Scotsman of 27 years and 456 pounds came to the Department of Medicine in Dundee, Scotland, with a problem. He needed to lose weight. A (1/8 of a) ton of it. The doctors suggested maybe not eating for a few days could help. It was just an offhand recommendation, but our Scotsman (known only as “AB”) really took to it. He stayed at the hospital for several days, taking only water and vitamin pills while undergoing observation to ensure nothing went wrong. When his time was up, he continued the fast back at home, returning to the hospital only for regular monitoring. After a week, he was down five pounds and feeling good. His vitals checked out, blood pressure was normal, and though he had lower blood sugar than most men, he didn’t seem particularly impaired by it. The experiment continued… for 382 days. Yes, AB fasted for 382 days, drinking only water and taking vitamin, potassium, and sodium supplements. All told, he lost 276 pounds, reaching his target weight of 180 pounds and maintaining the bulk of his weight loss.
                            https://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting-weight-loss/
                            Last edited by Gorbag; 12-29-2012, 11:40 AM.
                            "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                            - Schopenhauer

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                              I think a small sub-set of people are born with Leptin dysregulation and are obese from childhood on. Look into the AMGEN Leptin Trials HHMI Bulletin: Leptin's Legacy

                              In your thought experiment, you would have to hand-pick everyone for similar metabolic systems. If your compound was filled with young men who had just successfully completed the Marines Basic Military Training the outcome would surely be different than if you just picked random high school graduates.
                              I think that different metabolic systems - as you call it - will not play that much of a role. Yes, there will be differences due to age, sex and hormones etc, but do you really think that some of the candidates will not lose substanitial amounts of fat on a 500 - 700 kcal modified fast mainly on lean protein and fibrous vegetables? Somebody on this thread seem to think that candidates may even gain weight and come out as fatter?! In my personal opinion I would find it far more likely that a random person converted water to wine, but that just me...
                              "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                              - Schopenhauer

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                                Do you believe it is possible to accumulate fat without any food at all sbhikes? And related to our though-experiment, do you also think there may be a possibility that some of the candidates after one year in a controlled environment, on a modified fast, may be even fatter than at the start of the experiment?
                                I think its very posible for some of them to become less healthy even though they lose weight. Like I said before this experiments would hold more interest to me if we varied the kind of calorie or the nutritive load. You said does a multivitamin have calories before....well do energy drinks contain B vitamins....and to what purpose? Get it? It really isn't all about calories in....for really realz!

                                You also say "as much tea, water, or coffee as they want".....again this is another variable that will dictate a different response in each person based on 1.) how much they consume (since you leave it up to them) 2.) their metabolic and adrenal health and response to whatever amounts they decide to consume.

                                Even in your thought experiment where you have concentration camp type control there are variables that will change the outcomes on an individual basis.
                                Last edited by Neckhammer; 12-29-2012, 01:01 PM.

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