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  • #91
    Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
    Fat camps exist, though probably not with a primal slant in terms of nutrition. People sign themselves up to get fixed for all kinds of things. I'm sure some of the fixes are perfectly valid, for some people. I don't think people would survive on such a drastic reduction in calories (assuming they were eating significantly more beforehand), or that amount of food. I imagine people would die well before losing "enough" weight (to be deemed medically healthy by most physicians).
    Hi namelesswonder, and welcome to this now infamous thread!

    Why do you think they will die by such a drastic reduction in food, when obese persons have waterfasted for one whole year without any food at all?

    The human body can, if necessary release around 1% of stored bodyfat per day. So an obese person that carries 300 lbs. of stored bodyfat may get 3 lbs. or around 10.000 calories per day from stored bodyfat - if necessary! A person with only 10 lbs. of stored bodyfat will only release around 0.1 lbs. or 45 gram of stored bodyfat or 400 calories. In the last case, I suppose, there may be a real danger of starvation on a low calorie diet and especially if physical activities are involved! So, what physiological reasons would make a person with more than sufficient bodyfat starve to death then? Why do you think so? Maybe some can get sick or even die of stress or fear of not getting enough food, that’s a possibility, but inside the camp we have a very professional staff to make them feel secure and occupied with everything they want – just no other food than in the prescribed 500 – 700 calorie diet, that gives them at least 100 gram of protein, essential fatty acids, enough fibers and also a multivitamin pill just in case…

    And to everybody that still doesn’t know what a thought-experiment is, GO HERE:

    Thought experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and here:

    Thought Experiments (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

    - Schopenhauer

    Comment


    • #92
      What happens to obese criminals who are incarcerated in real prisons? From this link it appears prison food is portion controlled and not all you can eat: Prison food - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

      I would imagine most obese people lose weight in jail?

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Graycat View Post
        Although the premise is quite different, to me it is reminiscent of a novel I read a while back.The Long Walk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Does that mean that Mr. King is a deranged, sadistic child molester and murderer? I think not.
        Have you watched some of the crappy reality tv that's being offered to us here lately? Based on that, I can actually see a so called "reality" show - "Obesity Asylum" in the works.
        I read that story and it convinced me that Mr. King has a sick imagination. It is one of those that has haunted me for years, not sure why but I found it very disturbing. I have quit reading Mr. King and I am fairly certain that was the reason why though an old bf reading bits of "It" to me late at night may have contributed.
        You know all those things you wanted to do: You should go do them.

        Age 48
        height 5'3
        SW 215 lbs
        CW 180 lbs (whole foods/primal eating)
        LW 172 lbs
        GW 125ish lbs

        Comment


        • #94
          thought experiments are generally created in order to:

          * challenge the prevailing status quo (which includes activities such as correcting misinformation (or misapprehension), identify flaws in the argument(s) presented, to preserve (for the long-term) objectively established fact, and to refute specific assertions that some particular thing is permissible, forbidden, known, believed, possible, or necessary);
          * extrapolate beyond (or interpolate within) the boundaries of already established fact;
          * predict and forecast the (otherwise) indefinite and unknowable future;
          * explain the past;
          * the retrodiction, postdiction and hindcasting of the (otherwise) indefinite and unknowable past;
          * facilitate decision making, choice and strategy selection;
          * solve problems, and generate ideas;
          * move current (often insoluble) problems into another, more helpful and more productive problem space (e.g., see functional fixedness);
          * attribute causation, preventability, blame and responsibility for specific outcomes;
          * assess culpability and compensatory damages in social and legal contexts;
          * ensure the repeat of past success; or
          * examine the extent to which past events might have occurred differently.
          * ensure the (future) avoidance of past failures.
          From one of your links.

          So what was yours for?

          As for the quoted list, I think those are predominantly subcases of my general explanation of the use of thought experiments. A lawyer doesn't propose a thought experiment to produce a random result, she frames her "experiment" to produce a result favorable to her strategic aims. Same with a scientists, though the strategic aims of scientists should be much broader.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by valmason01 View Post
            I read that story and it convinced me that Mr. King has a sick imagination. It is one of those that has haunted me for years, not sure why but I found it very disturbing. I have quit reading Mr. King and I am fairly certain that was the reason why though an old bf reading bits of "It" to me late at night may have contributed.
            The Long Walk is one of my favorite stories of all time. I don't think it's that disturbing really... maybe a little haunting. If you haven't read it do so! It's on my list of must-read literature.

            Comment


            • #96
              I read the abstract of the man who fasted for over a year. It was not a water-only fast. He was also given vitamins.

              What if we put a bunch if skinny guys in your asylum and force them to eat 6000 calories a day. Would they all become uniformly fat? Would they all gain as much weight as the math would predict? What would happen after you stopped the force feeding? Would they maintain? Lose weight? Go back to the quantity they ate before or eat more than they used to? Would it make any difference if you force fed some of them on meat and fat and others on donuts and pizza?
              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                What if we put a bunch if skinny guys in your asylum and force them to eat 6000 calories a day.
                You're spending too much time on the Starting Strength forums.
                The Champagne of Beards

                Comment


                • #98
                  Funny how the same story can effect each person differently. I have always found his stories disturbing on a psychological level, he seems to find the darkest parts of humanity and bring them out.
                  Originally posted by dizzyorange View Post
                  The Long Walk is one of my favorite stories of all time. I don't think it's that disturbing really... maybe a little haunting. If you haven't read it do so! It's on my list of must-read literature.
                  You know all those things you wanted to do: You should go do them.

                  Age 48
                  height 5'3
                  SW 215 lbs
                  CW 180 lbs (whole foods/primal eating)
                  LW 172 lbs
                  GW 125ish lbs

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                    I read the abstract of the man who fasted for over a year. It was not a water-only fast. He was also given vitamins.
                    Oh, that must be relevant, how much calories are there in vitamins then??

                    Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                    What if we put a bunch if skinny guys in your asylum and force them to eat 6000 calories a day. Would they all become uniformly fat? Would they all gain as much weight as the math would predict? What would happen after you stopped the force feeding? Would they maintain? Lose weight? Go back to the quantity they ate before or eat more than they used to? Would it make any difference if you force fed some of them on meat and fat and others on donuts and pizza?
                    You are free to make your own thread about it if you find it interesting, so far you have only showed your excessive ignorance…
                    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                    - Schopenhauer

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by dizzyorange View Post
                      What happens to obese criminals who are incarcerated in real prisons? From this link it appears prison food is portion controlled and not all you can eat: Prison food - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

                      I would imagine most obese people lose weight in jail?
                      I guess so! Your reference is somehow relevant, but have they tried out a very low calorie diet on those obese convicts?
                      "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                      - Schopenhauer

                      Comment


                      • Gorbag - I'm loving the original intent of this thread. Sorry it got so convoluted. I love these thought experiments. For instance, let's feed your captive population through a feeding tube consisting of 2000kcal of the exact same thing. I'd bet some end up skinny, some fat, some just right. Then tweak the macros and total kcal. It just tells me that everyone's different.

                        It has to be frustrating for someone like Mark Sisson, who came up with a good, generalized eating and fitness plan. You know the first person to comment was a post-menopausal, hypothyroid, PCOS, eating-disordered type saying the Primal Blueprint didn't work.

                        There are about as many hormonal statuses as there are people. How well does PB work for a 50 year old Low T man?

                        Anyway, good try at a decent thread.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                          Gorbag - I'm loving the original intent of this thread. Sorry it got so convoluted. I love these thought experiments. For instance, let's feed your captive population through a feeding tube consisting of 2000kcal of the exact same thing. I'd bet some end up skinny, some fat, some just right. Then tweak the macros and total kcal. It just tells me that everyone's different.
                          Everyone's different, but there are some common underlying principles as well, that's what I think anyhow...

                          Originally posted by otzi View Post
                          It has to be frustrating for someone like Mark Sisson, who came up with a good, generalized eating and fitness plan. You know the first person to comment was a post-menopausal, hypothyroid, PCOS, eating-disordered type saying the Primal Blueprint didn't work.
                          And PB works, because the principles are sound! Most people starting out overweight and on a typical SAD diet will lose weight, being more healthy, even without counting calories! But sooner or later they will stall and the diet must be modificated or physical activities increased etc., but Marks general principles are very sound and healthy IMO.

                          Originally posted by otzi View Post
                          Anyway, good try at a decent thread.
                          Thank you! so you don't think I am some "crypto-nazi" with an hidden agenda to put obese people into consentration camps then?
                          "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                          - Schopenhauer

                          Comment


                          • i don't think i've ever seen any woman with pcos say that primal doesn't work, me included o.O
                            beautiful
                            yeah you are

                            Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                            lol

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                              I guess so! Your reference is somehow relevant, but have they tried out a very low calorie diet on those obese convicts?
                              There was a story recently about an obese convict who said he could not be put to death because he was too fat. He was on death row. Death row inmates are not put to death the week after the penalty has been assigned.

                              He was in jail. Prison food probably made him fatter.

                              Morbidly obese people are not overeating because they are unable to control themselves. They are suffering from cellular starvation.

                              There have been cases where obese patients have not been fed and have still gained weight. It is not a simple problem.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                                You know the first person to comment was a post-menopausal, hypothyroid, PCOS, eating-disordered type saying the Primal Blueprint didn't work.
                                Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
                                i don't think i've ever seen any woman with pcos say that primal doesn't work, me included o.O
                                Otzi, that was a cheap shot dude. As Grandma would say, "Lower than a snake's hips". IMO, you owe bloodorchid an apology.

                                Comment

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