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  • I'm starting to find...

    That as long as I eat quite a bit of offal, ensure my meat intake is varied (chicken, sardines, tuna, mackrel, ox liver, pigs liver, ox kidneys, marrow, beef, pork, chicken liver, pheasant, lamb, scratchings/crackling, anchovies, trotters, tongue...etc have all been going in recently) and eat full-fat dairy and eggs, I don't have any issue not eating veg for several days. As in, I'm not losing fat, not feeling unwell; just eating liver bacon and eggs for breakfast, IFing over lunch and having roast chicken with extra butter for dinner, at most a handful of nuts or an apple at some point, and carrying on over four or five days. End of the "meat feast" arrives and I'll have had an apple, a fistful of hazelnuts and half a small carrot over 5 days. And nothing feels wrong. I just pick up some veg when I finally feel like it.

    Doubt it's SUSTAINABLE on its own, but, as part of a Paleo/Primal life, it makes me feel encouraged to just eat whatever the hell I want: no veg = no problems. So, if I don't feel like veg, I won't eat it until I feel like it again. No counting, no "five-a-day", no worrying that I'm not getting "enough"... So much damn freedom!

    So, what newfound freedoms are you discovering with a Primal life?
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    --
    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

  • #2
    Nutrients are much higher in the non typo cuts of meats, like offal. The Inuits did it by eating every bit of the seals and whales they hunt. I could never do it, though, I'm almost a vegetarian, I love my veggies.
    F 28/5'4/100 lbs

    "I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath; do your research."

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Kochin View Post
      That as long as I eat quite a bit of offal, ensure my meat intake is varied (chicken, sardines, tuna, mackrel, ox liver, pigs liver, ox kidneys, marrow, beef, pork, chicken liver, pheasant, lamb, scratchings/crackling, anchovies, trotters, tongue...etc have all been going in recently) and eat full-fat dairy and eggs, I don't have any issue not eating veg for several days. As in, I'm not losing fat, not feeling unwell; just eating liver bacon and eggs for breakfast, IFing over lunch and having roast chicken with extra butter for dinner, at most a handful of nuts or an apple at some point, and carrying on over four or five days. End of the "meat feast" arrives and I'll have had an apple, a fistful of hazelnuts and half a small carrot over 5 days. And nothing feels wrong. I just pick up some veg when I finally feel like it.

      Doubt it's SUSTAINABLE on its own, but, as part of a Paleo/Primal life, it makes me feel encouraged to just eat whatever the hell I want: no veg = no problems. So, if I don't feel like veg, I won't eat it until I feel like it again. No counting, no "five-a-day", no worrying that I'm not getting "enough"... So much damn freedom!

      So, what newfound freedoms are you discovering with a Primal life?
      Give it 20 years not five days to see if it had any negative effect on your health.

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      • #4
        Good for you. This wouldn't work for me though. I need the low-calorie, high volume foods like vegetables and some fruit to make me feel full. I could do meat/offal/eggs/nuts only, I'm sure, but then I will have to ingest 5000 calories a day and that's a boat load of protein and fat.

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        • #5
          Yup, that works fine for me too. You could live that way ....many people have, but I don't make an effort to do so. If I "forget" my veggies for several days I just remind myself that they were not "prized" among most tribes anyhow. I use em for flavoring basically. They are not magical. A couple servings here and there are good nuff.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
            Yup, that works fine for me too. You could live that way ....many people have, but I don't make an effort to do so. If I "forget" my veggies for several days I just remind myself that they were not "prized" among most tribes anyhow. I use em for flavoring basically. They are not magical. A couple servings here and there are good nuff.
            Exactly my experience. I am moving toward a more carnivorous way of eating just naturally.

            I think a lot of the people who report IBS issue and such and blame if on Primal are really just packing in more fibrous veggies than are needed and more than their digestive systems can handle.

            My criterion for a veggie is this. If I actually enjoy the taste of it in its natural state (i.e not covered in butter, salt, sauces, cheese, etc.) then I include it. I can make kale taste good in a variety of ways but just raw? I don't think the Groks would have eaten that unless they were facing starvation.

            The seriously carnivorous crowd (some of whom are a bit off the deep end for my tastes) seem to be very fond of sea veggies such as kelp and mushrooms. These thing are not officially plants I guess (algae and fungi) and supposedly don't have the anti-nutrient properties of plant matter. This works for me since I love sea veggies and shrooms.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by KathyH View Post
              Give it 20 years not five days to see if it had any negative effect on your health.
              I wasn't advocating it as a long term thing ("Doubt it's SUSTAINABLE on its own,"). I was just saying it's liberating that I no longer have to eat "x amount of y" a day, that I can just eat what I fancy and my body seems to regulate the rest. Today I had a TON of veg, because I fancied it. Sometimes I don't eat. Sometimes I just eat yoghurt and butter for a day. Sometimes I stuff myself on offal. Sometimes I go veggie for a few days. And sometimes I eat NO veggies for a few days. The day-to-day stopped mattering because my body's healthy and able to cope with it. It just "requests" vegetables when it needs them.
              --
              Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

              --
              I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
              I'd apologize, but...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                I think a lot of the people who report IBS issue and such and blame if on Primal are really just packing in more fibrous veggies than are needed and more than their digestive systems can handle.
                Not my personal experience. At one stage I was eating close to carnivorous (mainly eggs, fish, meat.. little or no fruit/veg) and I've never been so constipated in my life. I also felt like crap. Not all guts respond to the same things.

                If some people are biologically carb intolerant, and others are fine, then surely it's not unorthodox to suppose that some people might respond well to a lot of protein /fat, while others can't handle it?
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

                Comment


                • #9
                  I feel the same as you, Kochin. I don't feel "guilty" if I don't eat vegetables every day. I eat them if I want them. I eat as much of them as I want, sometimes enormous piles of them. But if I don't feel like eating my veggies I don't feel worried about it at all. I eat plenty of liver and fish. I know I'm getting a nutrient-rich diet.

                  It's really silly to start worrying about veggies now because when I was on the wheat and sugar SAD diet I ate fewer vegetables than I do now and I was not worried then, plus back then I was actually doing the things to give me high triglycerides and all the other stuff leading me toward metabolic syndrome and heart disease. Now I'm doing all the things that reduce triglycerides and lower my chances for metabolic syndrome and heart disease. I don't need to wait 20 years to know this is healthier.
                  Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                    Not my personal experience. At one stage I was eating close to carnivorous (mainly eggs, fish, meat.. little or no fruit/veg) and I've never been so constipated in my life. I also felt like crap. Not all guts respond to the same things.

                    If some people are biologically carb intolerant, and others are fine, then surely it's not unorthodox to suppose that some people might respond well to a lot of protein /fat, while others can't handle it?
                    Um, sorry, was this a carb wars thread? I didn't think that was the point here.

                    The point is the freedom to choose what you feel like eating on any given day and not be chained to the notion that there must be a veggie next to every piece of meat. That every meal must be "balanced". If you feel like eating nothing but salad one day, great. And then all steak the next, fine too.

                    About being constipated when carnivorous. I can see that would be a big problem if the diet were very high on the lean protein and didn't contain enough fat. Personally, my digestive system is thanking me for not trying to cram so much vegetation through there.
                    YMMV.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                      Not my personal experience. At one stage I was eating close to carnivorous (mainly eggs, fish, meat.. little or no fruit/veg) and I've never been so constipated in my life. I also felt like crap. Not all guts respond to the same things.
                      Same here.



                      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                      About being constipated when carnivorous. I can see that would be a big problem if the diet were very high on the lean protein and didn't contain enough fat.
                      My IBS was worsened by eating plenty of veggies, but it wasn't caused by the veggies only.

                      I had about a month of no fruit or veggies with lots of meat (including LOTS of fat) and boy did my digestive system hate me.

                      Fat is not the answer to everything for everybody.



                      Back to the OP: I'm starting to find that eating a diet low in vegetables and higher in fruit and starches actually feels pretty awesome. I've started getting these little bursts of energy where I spontaneously run instead of walking (like from the car to a store, or down the street to the mailbox.) I love it!
                      Last edited by BestBetter; 12-22-2012, 05:04 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                        Um, sorry, was this a carb wars thread? I didn't think that was the point here.

                        The point is the freedom to choose what you feel like eating on any given day and not be chained to the notion that there must be a veggie next to every piece of meat. That every meal must be "balanced". If you feel like eating nothing but salad one day, great. And then all steak the next, fine too.

                        About being constipated when carnivorous. I can see that would be a big problem if the diet were very high on the lean protein and didn't contain enough fat. Personally, my digestive system is thanking me for not trying to cram so much vegetation through there.
                        YMMV.
                        Hah, not intending to contribute to the war It just when you use phrases like "blame Primal" it implies that people are doing it wrong and that's why it's not working for them. I'm simply refuting that. Lots of meat, high fat didn't work for me.

                        But I totally agree people don't need to eat "X" amount of veggies!
                        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                        - Ray Peat

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                          Hah, not intending to contribute to the war It just when you use phrases like "blame Primal" it implies that people are doing it wrong and that's why it's not working for them. I'm simply refuting that. Lots of meat, high fat didn't work for me.

                          But I totally agree people don't need to eat "X" amount of veggies!
                          Right. It seems like that is expected by a lot of Primal folks on the board but I don't really think you have to eat mountains of greenery to be eating Primally. That's what I meant about "blaming Primal" when dialing back on the veggies isn't un-Primal at all really.

                          I also think there is a seasonal aspect to this. I notice I want salads and such more in the summertime but right now all I want is meat with a side of meat and butter on top.

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                          • #14
                            Yeah, I started primal with a BAS every single day. Just got burned out on it after a while. Now I'm back to more seasonal veggie eating. Which means pretty much little to none of it right now.

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                            • #15
                              Experiment and see what works for you. I started out LC and VLC from time to time for the first 6 months. Now that I've reached my goal weight and fat % I'm eating more carbs. Although only organic vegetables, seeds, some nuts and fruit, treats are organic red wine and dark chocolate. If I've had a particularily hard workout I'll add some white rice. I don't really focus on my macros just eat what I feel like and it tends to end up averaging around 40% fat, 30% Carbs and 30% protein as a percent of total calories.
                              Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

                              https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

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