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If one wanted to go "nut free" that should eliminate seeds right?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Zach View Post
    Not just the poor people eat these staples. Did you ever think the the macronutrient carbohydrate has something to do with these peoples health and longevity?
    Whose health and longevity are you talking about specifically? I mean there are many traditional societies that eat 30% or less carbs and have terrific health. Seems to me that the evidence points to lower carb for longevity. But, you might be able to make a case for macro agnosticism. Nothing is exactly settled, but I don't believe anyone can actually provide a legitimate argument that high carb is necessary for health and longevity.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 12-21-2012, 06:49 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
      Whose health and longevity are you talking about specifically? I mean there are many traditional societies that eat 30% or less carbs and have terrific health. Seems to me that the evidence points to lower carb for longevity. But, you might be able to make a case for macro agnosticism. Nothing is exactly settled, but I don't believe anyone can actually provide a legitimate argument that high carb is necessary for health and longevity.
      First, 30% of calories is not lower carb. Even at 1800 cals, that is 150g carbs. Second, which cultures eat less then that? Besides the Inuits of course.

      Pretty much the entire world eats 30-50% calories from carbs including the longest lived and healthiest peoples in the world. Almost all eat grains as part of a daily diet.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Zach View Post
        Pretty much the entire world eats 30-50% calories from carbs including the longest lived and healthiest peoples in the world. Almost all eat grains as part of a daily diet.
        Of course pretty much the entire world is now suffering from high and increasing rates of obesity, diabetes, and cancers too. There's quite the correlation there.

        Most HG societies ate less than 30% carbs and these are the groups that have no indication of all these chronic diseases that are now on the rise. Here is a link:

        Whole Health Source: Composition of the Hunter-Gatherer Diet

        "Many groups were almost totally carnivorous, with 46 getting over 85% of their calories from hunted foods. However, not a single group out of 229 was vegetarian or vegan. No group got less than 15% of their calories from hunted foods, and only 2 of 229 groups ate 76-85% of their calories from gathered foods (don't forget, "gathered foods" also includes small animals)."

        The evidence is obviously lost to the ages. Now that most of these tribes are extinct or have had their traditional cultures destroyed there is little left to study now a days. It's rather sad. But, we do have some inclination as to what they didn't eat...grains, legumes, or seed oils. They did eat meat, nuts, seeds, berries, fruit, and tubers with some vegetables. The groups that had access got more energy from starch and fruit, but there are many that did not.

        Your remark about grain is interesting. Surely you have seen the data damning wheat in grain eating societies...basically in comparison to rice usually. So rice is obviously less toxic than wheat right? So there are levels to which grains are better or worse when your picking your poison...that has been addressed numerous times.

        Then there is this for the agriculturist vs hunter gatherer societies http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/l...ter-gatherers/
        Last edited by Neckhammer; 12-21-2012, 07:49 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
          Of course pretty much the entire world is now suffering from high and increasing rates of obesity, diabetes, and cancers too. There's quite the correlation there.

          Most HG societies ate less than 30% carbs and these are the groups that have no indication of all these chronic diseases that are now on the rise. Here is a link:

          Whole Health Source: Composition of the Hunter-Gatherer Diet

          "Many groups were almost totally carnivorous, with 46 getting over 85% of their calories from hunted foods. However, not a single group out of 229 was vegetarian or vegan. No group got less than 15% of their calories from hunted foods, and only 2 of 229 groups ate 76-85% of their calories from gathered foods (don't forget, "gathered foods" also includes small animals)."

          The evidence is obviously lost to the ages. Now that most of these tribes are extinct or have had their traditional cultures destroyed there is little left to study now a days. It's rather sad. But, we do have some inclination as to what they didn't eat...grains, legumes, or seed oils. They did eat meat, nuts, seeds, berries, fruit, and tubers with some vegetables. The groups that had access got more energy from starch and fruit, but there are many that did not.

          Your remark about grain is interesting. Surely you have seen the data damning wheat in grain eating societies...basically in comparison to rice usually. So rice is obviously less toxic than wheat right? So there are levels to which grains are better or worse when your picking your poison...that has been addressed numerous times.
          If ever there was a time to say "correlation does not equal causation" that would be it. Pretty much the entire world only started getting high rates of obesity, diabetes and cancers in the last 100 years and mostly in the last 50. There is no doubt that this is from a multitude of things but processed foods, chemicals and a sedentary lifestyle are chief among them. There is no way on earth you can blame carbohydrates or on these things.

          Also i was not talking about small hunter gatherer tribes or our distant ancestors. Im talking about the billions of people around the world who have been eating grains and beans for centuries and are still much healthier then their modernized counterparts. This doesnt mean im specifically talking about wheat either. There are many types of grains. All im saying is that you can google a list of all the longest lived cultures, google their diets and every single one eats a form of grains.

          Btw grains can be traced back up to 100,000 years, legumes 150,000+ years. Grains were the cause of our civilization boom. There is way too much evidence showing that grains are healthy to ignore. They may have toxins just like all plant material but they also sustain life in ways animal products cant.
          Last edited by Zach; 12-21-2012, 08:01 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Zach View Post
            If ever there was a time to say "correlation does not equal causation" that would be it. Pretty much the entire world only started getting high rates of obesity, diabetes and cancers in the last 100 years and mostly in the last 50. There is no doubt that this is from a multitude of things but processed foods, chemicals and a sedentary lifestyle are chief among them. There is no way on earth you can blame carbohydrates on these things.

            Also i was not talking about small hunter gatherer tribes or our distant ancestors. Im talking about the billions of people around the world who have been eating grains and beans for centuries and are still much healthier then their modernized counterparts. This doesnt mean im specifically talking about wheat either. There are many types of grains. All im saying is that you can google a list of all the longest lived cultures, google their diets and every single one eats a form of grains.

            Btw grains can be traced back up to 100,000 years, legumes 150,000+ years. Grains were the cause of our civilization boom. There is way too much evidence showing that grains a healthy to ignore. They may have toxins just like all plant material but they also sustain life in ways animal products cant.
            Listen, you asked for "a culture"...I gave you 46 (at least). I quite plainly stated you can't make an argument that high carb/grains are necessary because there is ample evidence to the contrary. The article by Eades compares an agricultural society and HG society at the same location....edge HG without grains. I don't disagree that the past hundred years have been worse. Thats why if you are going to eat substandard fair like grains and legumes you should look into WAPF and learn how to prepare them "traditionally" to best mitigate their damage.
            Last edited by Neckhammer; 12-21-2012, 08:19 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post

              You can pry my macadamia nuts from my cold dead hands.
              My gift to you Paleobird, and if I had the inclination to go to my upstairs computer I would have used photoshop, but I didn't...

              paleobird_macadamia.jpg
              Female, age 51, 5' 9"
              SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

              Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
              2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Zach View Post
                Pretty much the entire world only started getting high rates of obesity, diabetes and cancers in the last 100 years and mostly in the last 50. There is no doubt that this is from a multitude of things but processed foods, chemicals and a sedentary lifestyle are chief among them.
                Let's not forget the radio waves emitted from wireless laptops. If these are dangerous then I'm definitely a candidate for crotch cancer
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

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                • #23
                  I imagine that macadamias use their shells as the primary defense rather than chemicals. I don't think there's an animal on earth that can open a macadamia nut. Even the crows attempt to open them by dropping them in traffic but running a car over a macadamia still doesn't open it.

                  Local Native Americans in my area ate acorns and chia. Acorns take a lot of preparation to become edible. There are bitter tannins in the nut that must be rinsed away from the pulverized nut meat. Chia takes less preparation but damn those chia flowers have really painful thorns and it's not like the land is blanketed in abundant chia. If it was me, I might take the time out to prepare and eat acorns, but I think my time could be much better spent going fishing and diving for lobster, urchin and other seafood.
                  Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                    Let's not forget the radio waves emitted from wireless laptops. If these are dangerous then I'm definitely a candidate for crotch cancer
                    You jest, but I will not sit with a laptop actually on my lap....better safe than sorry I say

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                    • #25
                      Didn't mean to set off round 47,534 of the carb wars. My comment about rice and beans not being optimal nutrition was not about the carb content at all. It was about them being grain and legume respectively. Read the PB if you need to ask why those are bad for you.

                      jojohaligo, I can't get your attachment to open for some reason.
                      Last edited by Paleobird; 12-22-2012, 02:16 PM.

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                      • #26
                        we eat several kinds of soaked seeds and nuts in small quantities throughout the week because they do actually have trace minerals that are helpful for us. For example, the soil here is very low on selenium, and two soaked brazil nuts per day provides all the selenium that we need to be healthy. So, we eat those. Pumpkin seeds have several minerals that DH specifically needs, and we toss the soaked ones into a salad and all get benefit.

                        If you want to go nut/seed free, then certainly do. no one is saying you shouldn't. We have opted not to -- but it's not like we are eating mass quantities.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                          I imagine that macadamias use their shells as the primary defense rather than chemicals. I don't think there's an animal on earth that can open a macadamia nut. Even the crows attempt to open them by dropping them in traffic but running a car over a macadamia still doesn't open it.

                          Local Native Americans in my area ate acorns and chia. Acorns take a lot of preparation to become edible. There are bitter tannins in the nut that must be rinsed away from the pulverized nut meat. Chia takes less preparation but damn those chia flowers have really painful thorns and it's not like the land is blanketed in abundant chia. If it was me, I might take the time out to prepare and eat acorns, but I think my time could be much better spent going fishing and diving for lobster, urchin and other seafood.
                          Yep, mac nuts are very labor intensive to get open. Probably why they are so bloody expensive.

                          When I was a kid you could pick abalone right off the tide pool rocks. Easy pickins compared to the prep required for acorns.

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